Yes But Why ep 211 Tracey B. Wilson does lots of fun and creative stuff!

In this episode of Yes But Why, I had a really great conversation with actor/writer/director, Tracey B. Wilson.

Tracey B. Wilson started her professional career as a theatre actor. Onstage, Tracey performed improv and sketch comedy in NYC in the late 1990s. In our conversation, we talk about her experience with the NYC sketch group, Living Room Live.

Tracey also works in film and television, both in front of, and behind the camera. As well as starring in a few national commercials and several indie features, Tracey has co-written, directed and starred in several award-winning short films!

Tracey gives some great advice for freelance performers about standing up for yourself as a businessperson and getting paid what you are worth. We talk about putting in the hard work and about giving yourself the chance to change it up and have some fun. We chat about Tracey’s career in physical comedy from party mime to sports mascot to Curious George on tour! This woman is a ball of energy!

We talk about how awesome it was that event producer Jim Striebich hooked Tracey up with a traveling show playing “Vanna” for the Wheelmobile as well as two Lady Gaga tours! What??! It’s true!


Tracey had a solo performance-art photography gig on Lady Gaga’s “Monster Ball” and “Born This Way Ball” tours. After this life changing experience, Tracey published the book, HEAL THIS WAY – A LOVE STORY. (Buy it for me.)

Tracey has been making the most of her time quarantining alone in NYC, becoming well acquainted with her green screen. Support Tracey B. Wilson by checking out her newest sketches at

Also, available now on Amazon, Tracey plays the title character in DIARY OF A LUNATIC, TREW’S CALLING – a film about finding your awesome. Watch it immediately.

Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at and join the fun.

This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible – get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at




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(production notes: recorded skype call with Rodecaster at the home studio on 5/7/2020)




HOST  00:01

Hello, Yes But Why listeners, this is your host, Amy Jordan.

Welcome to episode 212, an interview with Seattle based actor, Phillip Wheeler

But first, a bit about our sponsor.This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible. You can get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at

In this chat with Phillip Wheeler, we talk a lot about navigating show business as an actor. When I put in “show business” into Audible, there are a lot of books with some great advice and ooh, an autobiography of Dick Van Dyke. You got to check this out… Audible is available for your iPhone, Android, or Kindle. Download your free audiobook today at

In this week’s Yes But Why episode, I chatted with actor Phillip Wheeler. We talked a lot about what it takes to be an actor. From finding the right market to developing your craft, the hustle of acting is intense and Phillip Wheeler is working hard in the thick of it.  Phillip was passionate and full of good advice. In our conversation, we discussed how we think the current lockdown will change the film industry. And we talked about how we all need to be supportive of our fellow actors and filmmakers, especially right now.

I now present to you: Yes But Why episode 212: Phillip Wheeler knows you have to take risks if you want to live your life as an artist!


I’m Amy Jordan. And this is Yes But Why podcast. Yeah

GUEST  02:18

My dad is retired now but he taught elementary school art and because he was a elementary school art teacher you know it’s not the most lucrative job in the world financially but in his heart the best job ever. But so he did a lot of things side jobs for extra money. And one of them was to do the SAT for the middle school play for the middle school shows. And also he did the fact for the shows that he did an elementary school for our for the middle school shows and the other school shows. And so, because we didn’t have a lot of extra money for babysitters and all that, I would with my two sisters, I’m the middle of three, we would go to the theater, like the middle school theater, And we were just like sick while my dad go or give us paint brushes or you know, give us like little tasks that we could do. And so it legitimately the theater to me was a playground. And I couldn’t wait to be nine, because you had to be nine to be old enough to be an elementary school musical. So be in the operetta. No, this is a true story. And like I would go to with my dad and I would sit in every seat and count every seat, he would let us we would like go into the catwalk so that you walk around like Way up high. We would like I would in the evenings we would just go and play. And and I grew up very creatively. My mom also she is like an artist. So she would not call herself that professionally. She does a lot of artwork and she was a teacher’s aide and but she’s very, very creative and a great fine artist. And the way we grew up, we were not allowed ready for this. We weren’t we were not allowed to have coloring books or paint by numbers because Those are non creative, because it’s a picture that you color inside. Right? We were allowed as much construction paper and paints and markers and colored pencils that we could have. But nothing that was already made nothing that came out in a kick. Nothing that I mean, I did a lot of stand up about this for a while that like, you know, the most rebellious thing I ever did when I was a kid is my sister got to paint by number in like fifth grade and a birthday party, she came home from a birthday party with a paint by number, and we literally This is a true story. We hid the paint by number and did it secretly in the basement where my dad wouldn’t see it. It’s so funny. Aaron’s getting our brain. Right? And so he was like, You look cute after the four of you. Even we literally had this. We put it out and he’s the most rebellious thing I ever did as a kid was put a paint by number on an easel. Because, you know, with my dad, we would get in trouble for doing the paint by number. Mm hmm. And so, but my parents also we didn’t watch cartoons on Saturday. We didn’t watch a lot of TV. But they would say, and Larry, this is and you wonder why I did so much improv. It was my parents who say you love to say, here’s this deck, go outside and make up a game like that. And so I don’t


know they’re doing now you.

GUEST  05:32

Yeah, that’s what I mean back to you know, but that was how it was. And so what’s funny is, so listen, in New York, I did a lot of improv and a lot of sketching all my things. There is a certain part of me that never fit into that world all the way. Because I’m not a kid that was raised on TV or that watched a lot of cartoons. Like I have no pop culture references. I don’t you know, that’s, that’s bad. Part of my brain is not it doesn’t gel with everybody out because I’m like, I don’t know, I was in the backyard pretending I was in a tornado when it was windy.

HOST  06:09

You know, though, there’s a lot to that, you know, there’s been big discussions about you know, using pop culture references and like, you know how that can exclude certain people and whatnot. Like or my favorite is like who cares if you don’t know what it is just turn it into something different and then the whole audience might know it as a but then you’re like dealing with it as be and they think it’s the funniest thing in the whole wide world. But I get you that like, you know, you’re almost like your level of creativity is like I’ve been improving for since I was five your mind nevermind, I just learned how to yes and oh, no, no.

GUEST  06:52

Oh my god. I mean, yeah, but yeah, like yeah, standing with like, I mean, it was taught to us without those words, right. Like I think it was articulated as I actually studied improv and all that stuff and I was like, Oh yeah, I’ve been doing this stuff a long time. I learned the games I learned this stuff. But I even even only recently the the phrase that could gamify things like to make kids learn or take you know, everything becomes a game and then it’s fun. Like my dad when we were growing up, we we lived in a small house and we added in addition, we added like a family room on to the house but my dad and my mom and my kitchen they did most of the work and I was 11 like laying floorboards. And but it was like a gauge, like 25 nails and a hammer and like see who could like get to the end of the row first, what faith free of course, even like our chores or that way, it’s like we would play this game at the end of the night. Now I will often say my sisters and my memories are different because they think you you internalize things differently in your own life where you are, how you receive information or whatever. But to me, everything was a game. And at the end of the day, we would play the five things game. before you go to bed, put away five things. walk through each room, put away five things. Look at five. And then you do five and you might maybe do 10 but like everything with a game, go to find things you can find. Then, yeah, it’s funny. Like we just grew up. I just grew up in a very, very creative home. And, like, all my sisters are known for it, like my whole family’s just like, Oh, it’s the Wilsons like, oh, the Wilsons can make something up have the boobs do it.

HOST  08:41

That’s fun. So are you guys the ones with the big Christmas decorations every year and the Halloween haunted house through your living room or anything like that.

GUEST  08:51

It’s funny when I think back my parents made, like, I guess it’s called you know, it’s like environmental for you. Right, like, my parents helped make this thing like, like in our church when we were growing up, where was this thing called the journey to Bethlehem. And my mom was the director and writer and my dad was did all the staff. And it was like the Mary and Joseph and they go through the town and they, you know, there’s no room in the end and they go to the table, but like, you walked through it, like you walk through the church and you and they like, redid the whole church into this huge. Like, it wasn’t like a pageant that you watch. It was like this experience. And it wasn’t even. It was like last. This is a terrible thing to say about a thing called the journey back when it was religious, but was more about like this communal experience, didn’t mean like, we grew up Presbyterian. That was like, the tenants of that is like, just be good to your neighbor didn’t mean like whatever you want to do, just be good to your neighbors. Just your DNA. Yeah,

HOST  09:51

this was like immersive theater piece that they do as adults. Yeah, you know,

GUEST  09:58

and we did it for years. But what’s funny is, so that thing we did when I was a kid, I didn’t realize until I was like a full grown adult that I was like, Oh, yeah, my mom directed this immersive theater piece, you know, and like Mike knew my dad did the staff and I knew, but I was like, I think the older that you get, the more you realize these influences, both negative and positive. That is, like how you were shaped and like what you want to carry and what you don’t have, how you were raised, you know?

HOST  10:28

Yeah. And like little details about your parents that you like, find out about them as an adult that you can, like, understand as an adult now, you know what I mean? As opposed to when you were a kid, like I heard the story that this happened, but now only as an adult toy, like grasp it or, you know, like connected to myself as a like, Oh, I do that kind of stuff, too. You know, we were talking earlier about how your your parents were against coloring books and stuff like that my mom also involved in teaching was in the teachers union deeply obsessed with unions and wouldn’t let us eat grapes as kids because the grape pickers were not unionized. And that was something that she was standing up against. And so we didn’t have grapes until we were adults. And I like remember getting a phone call from my sister. I was in college, and she called me and she was like, hey, guess what? I got some great. And I was like, You did? What? Are they in the house? And she’s like, no, not my house. Okay. She’s like, No, I have them in my car. But I bought them at the store. I was like, don’t let mom see.

GUEST  11:37

While you’re here. Mom was

HOST  11:39

so funny. You know, it’s funny about it is like, I talked to her now. And I’m like, we were so worried about eating grapes. And she’s like, Oh, isn’t that big a deal. It was like, it was a big deal.

GUEST  11:50

But it’s funny though, because to you, right? You latched onto that thing at a certain point in time when you’re a kid, and you understand what this means. And then jack, what do you like what becomes a thing and not so my dad was the treasurer of the teacher. And when I was a kid, there was a teacher’s freeze. And my dad went to jail for 10 days because he was a striking teacher and a teacher’s union. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, not where you thought it was gonna go.

HOST  12:27

No, I really. Now my whole life in unions, I held picket signs before I did anything else.

GUEST  12:35

Yeah. Well, I mean that. I mean, that was an important thing. As an actor, when I moved to New York, like the excitement of being a part of this professional guild and saying, like, I’m a union actor, like, Here I am, and it was a big important deal to join the union. I know.

HOST  12:52

I know. I’m still not in the Union. I’m still thinking about it. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, whatever it means Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes it doesn’t. So

GUEST  13:05

I think it is complicated. Yeah. But in the long term, it does mean you know, fair wages and protection and all those great things. Oh,

HOST  13:13

yeah. Oh, I’m a union gal. Believe me. I’m


really great.

HOST  13:19

Well, I didn’t eat grapes. I remember the first time I ate them. I ate them today. But every time I eat them, I feel like I’m doing something wrong, which

GUEST  13:27

I like. It’s good. I’m gonna think about you when I eat grape. Yeah,

HOST  13:31

but if you like like, it’s such a like, healthy thing to feel guilty about eating. You know what I mean? It’s not chocolate, or like cookies or whatever. But I’m like, every time I have it, I’m like I’m just hoping the workers are unionized. Now, I was like, Mom, are they okay? I’ve, by the way, I’ve been eating since I left home but it’s like admitting doing drugs. Mom, have a great day.

GUEST  14:01

Raising money.

HOST  14:03

So tell me you mentioned a couple times that you have done sketch and improv in New York City. Yeah. Where did you start? You didn’t grow up in New York City.

GUEST  14:17

No, I grew up in Orchard Park, New York, which is a suburb of Buffalo, South County Buffalo, South towns to Western New Yorkers means the snowbell that means school and then I did theater growing up I put you know, when I was nine Like I said, I got to be nine and I got to be in James in the Giant Peach where I played in the spider that was very exciting.



GUEST  14:44

I had a cool costume. Very cool. And then I did theater and I wasn’t really like a good singer. And I wasn’t you wouldn’t look at me go. Oh, she has it. I wasn’t that kid. Dude. No, man. Like I wasn’t like all we couldn’t afford dance. Back then that wasn’t, you know, but I freaking loved it. But I was really good at the theater stuff and the comedy stocks. And so like I played Helen Keller when I was in 10th grade and that was a big deal. And, you know, I got that I got so much. I got my first fan letter from some mom wrote me a letter through the school. But you know what? I was president to the drama club and all that kind of stuff. And then I went to college, to a small state school. And I really wanted to go to a fancy theater school, right. I wanted to go to NYU or Carnegie Mellon. I had a friend that went to Carnegie Mellon, and I worshiped him and he was a couple years older than me. He was my sister’s friend, and he would come home over the summers and I didn’t book books should I read, you know, and and so I went to a small state school, that was not where I wanted to be. And it was a great school for things. Great school for teachers great school for physical education and a lot of stuff, but it wasn’t a theater school. And I would say to other students, they’d be like, oh, what’s your major? And I’d say theater. They go, we have that would be the first question is we have that. And then the second question would be, well, what are you going to do when you leave school? And I’m like, you know, after you ask our

HOST  16:27

big boys as well, that’s like, the number one thing like, what are you gonna do with that? I mean,

GUEST  16:32

you know, because people think it’s like, not a job and then you spend all day watching Netflix. So Well, yeah.

HOST  16:38

Plus, I just, I mean, now if I’ve learned anything getting older, it’s like, I don’t think it really matters at all what you have a major in in your bachelor’s degree like it really just does not affect any of your life. I’ve never not gotten the job. They weren’t like you’re a drama major. I’m sorry. We can’t have those here. Like, that’s fine. So

GUEST  17:03

it’s like yeah, and well, I actually did not. I did not say the pool. Right? Um, I was paying for school mostly on my own and awesome side note super boring, but I got Lyme disease that was super sick for a very long time. And I kept having I quit room. Oh, and yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like, I go to school for a semester, then it gets they’re gonna have to leave and then go back again. I get sick again after me before they figured out like kind of what was the matter with me and all that it was a long, boring, you know, but it also put me behind in school in a school that I really didn’t want to be at anyway. And so when I was driving out, listen, I did the best I could and I was an RA and I hadn’t been in the shows and I did fine, but I didn’t love it and I wasn’t really learning anything. And because I had already been like teaching cedar camp and high school and doing all those things. And I was like, I thought like my first year of college, I was like, oh my Bernie talks to eight year olds. Yeah, I mean, it wasn’t it just wasn’t where I wanted to be. And so I was driving back to school, I had got my sister Tammy down car. And it was the beginning of what would be my junior year. But really, I was like, I only had two semesters worth of credits. And I came over this little hill and I saw the college and I just started to cry. And I was like, no. And I’m coming. I told my parents, I said, I’m leaving school. I’m done. I’m done. And my mom was super upset. And I will tell you, I think it’s the first real adult decision that I ever made. It was the first decision that I made for myself for my own new and knowing what I wanted and what served me as a human and I’m like, this is not it. And so, I said, I’m gonna go back to Buffalo and I’m going to, there’s, there’s actually for the size of the city. There’s a thriving theatre community in Buffalo. It’s a fantastic theatre community, and there’s lots of small professional theatre and For few years and come back and open theatre companies, and you know, and there’s a lot of great teachers that also do theater and that that have that are amazing teachers by day music teachers and stuff and then and do the theater scene. It’s a really, really supportive, rich, creative environment. And so like I did theater in Buffalo for a couple of years. And it was wonderful. And I learned more from doing shows, and acting opposite the people who are the theater professors that were doing, you know, like it was the best experience of just doing shows, and learning from people that are doing shows. And then I made myself a deal that I would apply to Carnegie Mellon. And if I got in, then, you know, obviously I would go and if I didn’t, I would move to New York. And I like to tell the story that I got wait listed, but I just wanted to get a kick.

HOST  19:57

Appreciate the honesty. The honesty. Yeah,

GUEST  19:59

right. I like to pretend I got wait listed. But then I just said, I’m going to move to New York and I’m just going to create my own studies. I’m going to find theater. And I’m gonna take dance classes for the first time in earnest, and I’m gonna, like, find a voice teacher, and I’m just gonna push together my own. You know, I’m gonna cobble it together. The best, best thing I ever get.

HOST  20:20

Absolutely. What year was this when you move to New York?

GUEST  20:24

So I moved to New York in 96 767 and 1999 alanda. No, but before you know before 2001 before 911 Yeah, like end of the 90s Sure. A good time. And a great it was I loved it. Yeah. But it was interesting, you know, kind of pre explosion of everything online. And you know, you got backstage magazine once a week and I didn’t even own a computer. I would, I would On Thursdays I would get backstage. And then I would watch friends and er while I cut out submissions. Yeah. And then Friday morning, I would go to Kinko’s where I rented the computer to type out my cover letter system out of system. And then I i waitressed, and did kids birthday parties and took classes. And it was amazing. And I loved all of it. And I knew that it was part of a bigger picture. And I didn’t expect like, Oh, I’m going to be famous in five minutes. But I knew that like I was excited to be in New York learning and being a part of the theater scene and doing comedy and doing improv and and so to answer your improv questions when I moved, there wasn’t like the school system yet.


Right? Right. It was just starting there

GUEST  21:50

wasn’t a system and that wasn’t a system was just starting. And so I was in like a just a ton of indie groups doing indie shows and

HOST  21:59

like, oh, My Way stuff at different theaters because when I first got there in 2000 it was mostly that like that I noticed I didn’t I also didn’t know anything about improv until

GUEST  22:11

I moved away. But so I when I was in this improv group Yeah, we did like a lot of shows that my cabaret spaces Yeah, so we did like cabaret nuts, you know, so we would like do our own shows, but they would be more like it don’t tell Mama, you know, stuff like that like piano bars and in these tiny little stages, but then I was in this group called Living Room live. And this was fantastic. So living room live. We performed in the downstairs of a bar on the Upper West Side. And there it was, like, set about 50 people there was a big stage and like lots of like mismatched couches and chairs kind of thing and it’s like downstairs bar. And we did show up every Tuesday night and we had like, you know, between like 30 and 50 people Sometimes 70 sometimes 10. You know, we have like a little, we had like a little cult following every Tuesday night. And it was just like Saturday Night Live, except for instead of in format is what I mean. Then instead of a musical guest, we would have stand ups come. And so each week you were responsible for writing a brand new sketch, and then you directed your stack and you pick who you wanted to be in it. And then there was like, 10 of us in the ensemble. So sometimes you might be in 10 sketches. And sometimes you might be in two. But each week, you know, you made your own costumes and did your own Prop, memorize your lines, and we would, one day would be show then couple days later, we rehearse and rehearse before the show, then do the show and it was magical. It was a magical magical time. I loved it. I loved it so much. Yeah, like every week brand new shows and, and what’s interesting though, is you know, you’re talking like prior to the internet, you know, yeah, okay, prior to YouTube. Prior to YouTube, so we weren’t This wasn’t like, making videos for the internet and like to start or, you know, in some ways it was the set. I’m This is how old I am right? It was so pure. It was just like, yes, we wanted to get people to come and we were trying to get casting directors calm and that we would do these like theater shows. every couple of months we do a theater show, that would be the sort of best job of the last few months, you know, and we did invite a bunch of casting directors and all that kind of stuff. But it was really, it was a super exciting time. And the sketches like we’re theater pieces, so you didn’t you know, there are some that we’ve recorded, but most of them we didn’t and and at that time also I had been in so I did I did have some fun successes right away and I booked a ton of national commercials and I used to be able to do sketches on David Letterman, which was super fun. And I worked on the soap operas a lot like I was It’s a crazy mixture of all of it. You know, when

HOST  25:03

you got there you like caught a wave. You got like a national commercial, especially in the late 90s. That That was great.

GUEST  25:11

At the time. Oh, yeah.


They’re like, Yeah, no.

GUEST  25:15

Yeah. I mean, I so moved to New York, start taking classes, join a comedy group, an improv group, so many improv group and then I booked my first Okay, I booked a national tour, playing Curious George, and a theater tour of Curious George and I played the monkey. And I wanted it super badly. And I had actually auditioned for it when I still lived in Buffalo, but my doctor would disagree. I was still kind of getting over being sick and they said, No, it’s too early for you to take a tour. You can’t do it. So I was really super bummed. But it was for theater works USA and the way theater works worked was you audition So it was non union, but audition were either because it was Children’s Theatre and you got this like TYT a contract that made you join actors equity. Right? So a lot of people joined actors equity by doing children’s theater tours. And I really wanted to play Curious George, I had done a ton of physical comedy already yet this character is like a whole thing. So I was like, I’m totally gonna book this. Now, when you are when you audition, though. You go to this open call, where you audition for the 15 shows they’re doing and you go and you sing a song, and then they call you back or whatever shows they think that you’re right for. Well, curious, George dozen things. And I didn’t want to be in any of the musicals because I’m not I’m not a singer. And so I was like, No, I just want to do this physical comedy role. So I show up to this open call. I walk in and they say, Great, what are you going to sing for us? And I say, Oh, I’m not. Now this is like one of those like long tables with all the people behind it. You know? They’ve all got all the materials in front of them and, and I was so like, brazen, but in a good way, you know? And I thought why not? I’m here to play Curious George. And they were like, Okay, and so I had made this like physical comedy piece, where I brought a book of Curious George and I like, Did somersaults and like read the book with my feet. And I like made up this whole thing. And, you know, I booked it. You did. Super Amazing. And so okay, about the commercials. So prior to this, I had, I had been auditioning from commercials quite a bit, and always getting called back and always getting called back but never booking them. And, and it would always be like, oh, went to the other girl went to the other girls never booked them. So this is my six month comedy group, all these auditions, and then I leave for the tour, and I come back from the tour. But here’s the thing while I was on tour, and this is again, like I didn’t even own a cell phone. This is you know, end of the 90s so I watch commercials in the hotel room, as if my life depends on it. Instead of switching from show to show, I switched from commercial to commercial. And my goal was to learn how to do this, what I call the tampon tone of voice. Right? So, because when I moved to New York, I’m like, loud and big, it shows up. It’s crazy stuff. And I go to my first commercial audition, and it was for some, like, Bath and Body Wash something. And I sitting in the lobby, and I’m like, Oh my God, I’ve seen all of these people on television already. Oh, whoa, I was so nervous. And I thought was a tiny little young, tiny little thing from Buffalo, you know? And I go into the room, and I have like, read by how to act in commercials. But like, I knew I had a script, underline and circle that highlighted, you know, and so I go in and I was over the top gigantic like, terrible. So I had a good I had a good commercial agent and the casting director who did not have to do this. And the more I’ve learned, the more I’m like, wow, this is remarkable. But she did. She like stopped the tape. And she just like, you could see she’s like, almost laughing. She puts her hands up to her mouth, and she goes, Okay, so, so you just moved here and you do a lot of theater? And I said, Yeah. And she said, Listen, I know you’ve you’ve come from a good place you have they obviously trust you and what you do. I said, I’m going to show you what you just did. I was like, okay, so she shows me the cage, close the back. And it was mortified. I mean, I was like, like, acting like I was on top of the Empire State Building. I don’t know what I was doing. I was crazy dance. And so she was like, She’s like, You’re, you’re funny. You’re cute, you’re smart. Whatever it takes to the thing, just do the thing. But like, I couldn’t get it. So all these commercials. I’m getting close. I’m getting close. I’m getting But I just still haven’t quite cracked the code. So I’m on tour with Curious George and I’m watching commercials over and over. And as they would talk, I would like, repeat back what they say. Said it until I fell in my voice. What is that tone of voice into myself into my throat in my body? How are they talking? Because they’re not projecting, you know, and I hadn’t done film and television before. Not really I’ve done some like local commercials, but no dialogue and you know, whatever. And I hadn’t cracked the code of like, talking naturally on film and television. And so, I come back. I feel like I’ve learned to tampon tone of voice. I call my agent I stand back from tour. They send me on a tampon commercial audition. Well, clearly, that’s fine. Now, Amy, I tell the story a lot, especially to younger actors that are like Teach me things right. Which I totally respect and admire. I you had to sit down with audition and read the coffee. Well, instead of sitting facing forward, and just sitting in a chair, imagine I turned sideways, and I put my feet up on the chair. So I’m hugging my knees. And like, I’m hugging my knees and I have with my chin on my hands. Because at the time that is with every tampon commercial looked at look like, like, look at me sitting so comfortably on this like white couch while I’m wearing tampons. Like, and so not only did I know the tone of voice, but I also knew what they looked like. And I booked it, they booked it. I called my mom and I said, I’m the other girl I’m the other girl and then once you book one you just like the floodgates are opening just book the tunnel and I booked the tunnel. Oh, yeah, that’s great.

HOST  31:47

Oh man, that’s so fun. That you happen to have the YouTube of that tampon commercials and available.

GUEST  31:56

Ah, it’s not on YouTube. Somewhere it’s somewhere. Well, yeah, I had some other ones. Oh, and then right after that I booked. I booked. I booked one for Nike. I booked one for next people. I did. I did one for next team. They sent me to Spain to do a commercial in Spain. Oh, I wait for this. This is so long ago, where you still had to pay long distance. Right? So I go to Spain, and they tell me in Spain that they’re paying for my hotel room phone. So I called people because I could call them for free that I didn’t call from New York City because I had to pay to call them long distance. People

HOST  32:48

they’re late to in the morning. What are you doing?

GUEST  32:53

I’m gonna call my college ex boyfriend.

HOST  32:58

Like I’m in Spain. A shark. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. Hey.


Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

HOST  33:06

No, no, no. So tell me about the physical comedy because you you mentioned that you know, you want this monkey roll and I’m like, What? How does this tell me more about this you taking like clowning courses like or is it just part of that like, love into physical comedy and do you do more of that now?

GUEST  33:27

Okay, all right. Really? Yeah. I will send you a video of this. In this summer over college, I had a friend the following. kid’s birthday parties. The whole thing is in Buffalo balloon animals magic, all of it. He says to me, Tracy. I’m working as party and they want a mind for this party. Do you want to do it? Well, I am in theater school. So of course yes. I will put my face on a dance around like a mine Of course I will. So When I was a kid, we had gone to see worlds all the time because my uncle worked with the one in Cleveland. And he was a horticulturist who saw the plants. And they had this mind named john, who would like entertain people when you went to sit in the Chevy show. And this guy’s fascinated me. So I would sit and watch him while people went in. Right? I would just sit and watch this like, mine guy, but he didn’t do like warm in the box. He was like really interactive clowning stuff, which is very like Bill Irwin style, if you know Bill Irwin, yeah. And so anyway, Jeff was like, Come be mine with me. I was like, okay, so I went to his house, I used his crown weight, we put makeup on together, and I recognized like gig and, like, have any traditional mine experience. I was weird and silly and whatever. So I was like, I’m just gonna play with the kids and I like pretended to toss the ball to them and they would toss that back and I pretended I did really interactive practice. placings, just the moment I didn’t talk, right? And the guy who had hired my friend Jeff was like, Where did you come from? And you were amazing. And I was like, I don’t know. I’m just making stuff up. So he started hiring me to do all these gigs. So I was like, right, so I would just like, okay, but I’m never probably going to do them in a box. That’s not I don’t want to pretend I’m in a box. So I just started to develop on my own. It’s kind of like, very interactive, the kind of things that I didn’t realize afterwards. I was like, Oh, this is what other people are already doing. I just didn’t know what it was called. But this is what the learning does or doesn’t, you know. And so, what happened was this same friend Jeff. in Buffalo, there are the buffalo bisons, which is a triple A baseball team. And it seats about $25,000 Stadium. It’s pretty big for buffalo buffalo doesn’t have a major league baseball team and they it’s a sport town so they’re very big into the buffalo Bible. And so he said, Hey, they’re hiring people to do like pre show, like run around the field and stuff and just do stuff with kids. You should come audition with me. So I missed the audition. I forget why he gets hired to do this. I call up the buffalo bisons and I said, Hey, I missed that audition, but I really want to do this thing that you guys are asking people for. So why don’t I just come Sunday and just work, but you don’t have to pay me and just let that be my audition. If you like what I do, then you can keep me and if not, then don’t until they’re like you want to come work for free. Okay.


idea. Don’t take this as bad advice. Kids don’t do that. Right,

GUEST  36:41

right. No, this is great advice. This is 100%. Great advice. All right, because my entire career which we could talk about for days about all the different weird things and some things that gone but I like to call myself like a crack dealer of my own and my own skillset and energy and entertainment. I will give A little taste of me for free, and then I’m going to make it pay like that. But the truth is that has served me incredibly well. Right? And I’ll get that out. And I’ll continue that. But let me just say that like, as my career has progressed, and I have been hired for different things, when people say, Hey, we want to hire you, to live event host this big, huge event for 10,000 people, we have $100, you know, I’ll be like, Oh, no. And I would, I will always say, Great, that is not the rate that I work at. But I really want to do this job, I want to meet you, I want to be these people. I will do this one job for you right now. But know that if you want me back, this is the rate that I work out. And then I do the one job for less money, and then I do that job for the next six years at the rate that I want. No so so that has been my sort of business mo since the beginning, since I didn’t even know what I was doing at all. But Yeah, so then I go, I get hired by the buffalo bison to and I create this character called loud mouth. But instead of just dancing around on Sunday before the game, this is where it gets fun. I see Buster bison and Buster by Vanessa had not got and I’m like I want to be busted by some sidekick so I start kind of putting myself into more and more positions at the stadium where more people see me wear whatever I started lining, I take a picture of him with his jersey and I like make a vision board for myself. But then I didn’t really I was still like sort of developing the character didn’t really have a costume yet it didn’t really. And so the bison said to me, hey, we’d love to like maybe a month in the bison say we love what you’re doing. This is so fun. We’re going to do this thing for the taste of Buffalo which is a big buffalo festival. And they said we want you to go with the bisons and go with them. With Dr. Biden, it’s super cool, but how will they know I’m from the Biden’s? I think you guys should give me a jersey that says loud mouth on it and have star on the back so that you’ll know them from the Bible. So they made me jersey, you know, and it’s like it’s funny because I did so many things without thinking and with no pressure just because it was fun and easy that now as a more seasoned actor and more into entertainment, industry and whatever I have to remember sometimes that it is that free and easy if you allow it to be like I decide that things got hard. I decide that the doors are closed, I decide I’m like snow isn’t just say like, I would like a jersey with a star on the back and like continue to show up and do the work and then people will see it, you know. So within my career I have done. So Amy on my website and on my business cards, it says I do lots of fun and creative stuff. Right? That’s what it says. do lots of fun and creative stuff. Because I for a while, I think I started limiting myself by being afraid to be more things and in quotes just an actor, well, but if I do more photography, you’re not going to think I’m an actor anymore. Or if I do more of this, or if I do more of that, instead of seeing all of these disciplines inform each other and make me actually better at acting. When I do photography, I become a better actor, an actor gives me better vision to communicate with people to be a better photographer, and that helps, you know, they all all things help each other but I think that we limit ourselves and we get in our own way by saying, Well, I can only be good at one thing or what if someone doesn’t think I’m this anymore, or what if someone doesn’t think that

HOST  40:49

was a you know, somebody like in the industry telling you that you had to be one thing? Because I’ve definitely heard that. I’ve definitely heard that and unprofessional way where it’s like, you gotta be You got to be focused. If you’re not focused, then you know, and people aren’t gonna look at you. I’ve definitely 100% heard that. So, yes, you’re saying don’t.

GUEST  41:11

Yeah, and I’m saying don’t. And I’m saying that that we see you is one thing. What is interesting is, I think I think it’s limiting. I think we limit ourselves. Because what if you say, I am an actor? What does that mean? Do you say you’re an actor? Do you say you’re a storyteller? Do you say you’re an artist? Do you say like, why are you an actor? And then why are you this silly character allowed? Why are you all these different weird things? And then I realized, well, a it brings me joy, and it brings me joy to bring other people joy into my energy in a way that affects people’s exciting to me, and how that manifests itself. I don’t care anymore. If someone says, Oh, well, you wrote a book. You’re an actor, and I’m Yeah, I’m a storyteller. I’m an artist. And so read the book or don’t and do my thing or don’t. And yes, in some ways, I will say yes, as far as if you want to be one thing and you want to fast track, maybe in quotes, fast track, but I don’t think there’s a thing. Like, maybe in the olden days, you say, I’m going to go to UCB and I’m going to go, eat, breathe, everything. I’m going to only discuss them with only this. I’m going to shut it off as it that is absolutely a way that is a way. But I have found for myself, that I have this varied career that really exciting to me. And, and there have been times where I thought, Oh, if only I stayed with one thing, or only I did, or, but now. It’s like, I can now call myself like a full grown up person. I can look back and say look at the magical joy of all the different things I have done. And now I feel like that’s sort of like rising tide raises all boats, that all the things made me better and better and better. As an artist, and every time I visit all the different things, I’m better. And so what’s interesting now, and clearly we can all tell your audience. Though I am excitable like this all the time, I am also living alone in the middle of a pandemic in New York City. The opportunities I have to speak with joy about my job and my life are very limited right now. Thank you. I appreciate that.

HOST  43:26

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, so my next question it has to do with how you’ve navigated that, are you sort of moving through from job to job as they’ve appeared and just sort of like letting the journey lead you? Or, you know, how did you decide to do anything? You know, what, what’s the next project that you choose to do? How does the Muse move you?

GUEST  43:53

Great question. Um, it’s a little bit of both. It’s like I always it’s one of these. Have a plan. But be flexible to change the plan. Kind of like improv like, right? My life is one big Yes. And it’s like I’m heading in a direction. I think 15 is going this way. And then somebody throws it in another direction, like, Okay, I guess we’re going in this direction. And then you go full force in that direction, you go, Oh, this is okay. But at the end, you’ve made this like, really powerful scene, but he didn’t really exactly know where it was going to go. But you have to be available. And you have to move forward with power and to be available for change at the same time, right when you’re doing a really good improv thing. And so I have done a little bit of both. And part of that is, you know, Necessity is the mother of invention, right? When you’re living in New York City, and you’re like, oh, how should I pay my bills so that I can eat? Right? So some of the things have come up though, and this is what I would say to other creatives listening. It’s, it really is about Yes, ANDing in the biggest possible way. It is about looking for opportunity. And then yes ANDing them. Or I like to say, no or is it no or it’s something if somebody gives you a No. Can you pivot it? Right? If you really wanted something, you wanted to be a part of some theatre company because you want to meet the people, but you didn’t get in as an actor. Can you say, What if I did this for you? Right? What if I really want to be in your show? Clearly, you know, I want to be an actor, but I’d love to meet you be part of your company. Could I? assistant stage manager want to show so they could get to meet you. So maybe I could be the next show? Like what do you write totally? Like, how do you you still What do you want to be a part of? And so I have been very crafty throughout my life with this, like, way I was raised, like, take a stick and make up a game. Right? I’ve been very crafty. So I was temping for a friend of mine. And an experience a marketing company and I mean, I was doing like Call during this thing called the Great tasty adventure, it was a kid thing. I had to call, I had to say, do you want to save the house to come to your school? Right? That was my job. But there’s a lot of things happening at this event agency. And so one of the things they had was something called the wheel mobile. And it is the Wheel of Fortune stage show, to get contestants for Wheel of Fortune, like the actual Wheel of Fortune. So they they said, Oh, the woman who plays Vanna for the road effect, do you want to go play Vanna and Little Rock Arkansas this weekend? And I was like, yeah, of course, of course. But then again, you’re getting to know me already. I would say, um, that’s fine. But you can’t pay me like a temp you have to pay me like I’m an actor, because this is not a temp job. That’s my skill set. That’s what I do. Right? So I get them to pay me more. So I go to Little Rock, Arkansas. Now, I didn’t have a chance to sort of be fully trained on their stage show but I know we’ll fortunately I grew up watching real origin. Yeah. So, because it was a stage show and because I’m like half mascot half improviser sketch comedian plus dramatic actor all the things. I was like well this is a show reel fork and so clearly the van is not just standing there like a television banner who I respect but it’s you know, she doesn’t get to do a lot on the tail television show right? I mean, it was just a show. So like I was kind of like digging a little bit crazy and cheering and I was like part just mascot Bama I guess you could say part I just like went for it because whatever I’m there and Little Rock for the weekend. I’m never coming back. Let’s just have some fun. Well, the people loved it. The people from LA loved it. And they said we would love it if you would consider being davana and and you know, we said 20 cities a year 2020 cities a year. Oh my god and

HOST  47:53

I are all hardcore

GUEST  47:55

rap. I didn’t I said, I love that you love what I do, and that I brought something weird and different to the table that you didn’t think of as the stage version. I approached it as a stage version. And I said, but you know, at this point I started doing a lot of independent films and stuff and playing good roles and there’s none of those films you can find anywhere by the way so but I said I don’t I love this job. It’s super fun, but it’s not really a career move for me. You know? I said it’s exciting you know, the prospect of traveling though and all these different things. So I said what if what if instead of being you’re coming on the road for these 20 well what if I’m your permanent backup band and every time the van I can’t do it like I’ll do it and then I’ll casting train all your new van as you know, to do it. The way I did, I’ll tell I’ll find so it could here’s why I stopped for a minute because this is what I always like to say. And I’m like, What is the thing I like to say? Why can’t I remember it stuff There’s generally an answer between yes and no. So there’s Yes. And and and there’s also a sign to maybe find a what if it’s between yes and no. What if I offered you this instead? You know, it’s like, No, you want me to do the tour. I don’t want to commit to the tour. But what if we did this? Now, here’s the thing I that I worked for, will be off for 10 years. 10 years I did it. And a cap and trade off of Anna’s I do a handful to do the year each year, they would say to me, Hey, we have a Do you want to go to? Too often? Yes, I do. You know, when I would go to wherever the cities were, and then if I wouldn’t do it. And so it was a fantastic opportunity. But here’s the point. Give your listeners. The point is I made that up. They said, do you want to do it? I didn’t want to do it, but I still wanted to do something. So I made up a new opportunity that lasted me for 10 years. That’s crazy, because I just said what if we did this so sure. Another thing is that that’s, that’s sort of what I’ve been doing my whole career. And so, I had, so I I started doing, you’re asking like, what’s the Muse? Right? So, I started doing photography. I grew up my dad had darkroom in the basement. I grew up with it, but I never pursued it. And then when things went digital, I was like, I want a digital camera. And I learned photography. Because I was eating, sleeping, breathing, pooping, acting, reading plays on the toilet on the subway, like whatever. And I started getting less work and more boring. Because I think I was having less life experiences and more just inside the work and those the in a way that like, actually became unhelpful after a while, right, because there was no human life in me it was just like, Oh, I got to do this, or I got to this or I got you know, and it just got it. Just Like I had had some successes, and then I couldn’t like kept it. And so I said, the only way that I’m going to be a more interesting actor is if I’m a more interesting human and I need to do other things outside of acting. And this is when I was like, I need to explore more photography. I need to do other artistic things that bring me joy. So I started doing photography, and I thought I booked a movie that was shooting in Australia. The movie fell through. My sublet has left me bedbugs, because I had left because I thought I was going to Australia to shoot a movie. I went to stay with my husband, my boyfriend at the time, until I went to Australia, but I didn’t go I come back with no money, no movie, no jobs, because I said no to the marks of going to Australia for three months. The suppliers asked me bedbugs. I didn’t have any money. I didn’t have any jobs. And I had to throw away my couch in my chair because they had been frozen them Not just my bed, right? So I had no living room furniture, and no money and some debt. And I was like, Okay, fantastic. So I can’t control when I’m going to book another commercial. Right? That’s out of my hand. I can’t control when I’m going to do more sketches on Letterman or whatever. Like, there are things that are that are out of my hands. You can’t control those things. Oh, that well. I am a photographer. I’m getting better at it. I can start doing headshots. I can control that to a certain degree, right? Like, what are jobs I can do? Because I was like waitressing isn’t going to get me enough money fast enough that I need for right now. I was like, it wasn’t I was not in a good place. So instead of buying a couch and chair that I couldn’t afford or charging furniture, I charged photo equipment and turn my living room into a studio. And every Friday, my friend Carrie came over and I bought her lunch and we did photo shoot Fridays. And I took thousands and thousands of pictures of Kerry learning different techniques, learning different styles. Learning how to had tried learning because I already knew I was good with people, right? But I seek out my technical skills. And because I’d always like done a bunch of brands and commercial print modeling stuff, like I knew the other side of the camera super well. So I was like, okay, so because I was doing photography, the same people, the same event company that I had hired me for, to do, Vanna on the road, knew that I was doing photography started hiring me to shoot events for them, right. So I start shooting a bag for them. waste money and waste money. Oh, this company is responsible. I can trace everything back to death, basically. No, it’s amazing. So then what happened was, I think, oh, there’s another whole other chapter moving up. But that’s okay. This isn’t my whole life story. So what happened was, though, that he said to me, my friend, Jim, that I’m talking about says, Hey, we just got this on the fall of oh nine He said, Hey, we just got this contract with Virgin Mobile who’s going to be sponsoring Lady Gaga tour. And we’re going to do some like, we’re going to do this like event before the show to take pictures of the little monsters like maybe you could do like DC, New York and Boston or something, but close one, still eight, whatever, because we’re going to hire a local photographer in every market. And, and now keep in mind, this is the fall of oh nine to Lady Gaga was a just it was still it was still like a theater tour. It wasn’t arenas yet or anything. It was still, you know, early, and is the very first big tour. And so I said to Jim, I said, Well, I said, you’re going to hire a different photographer, and every tour I said, this is Lady Gaga. I barely knew who she was really, by this point. I’m like, this is Lady Gaga. You need to make this a performance art event. I am a photographer and after and you need to hire me and put me on the road for all the cities right now Meanwhile, I was barely a photographer that was, I mean, I was good. But like, I mean, I was really like stretching my skill set here. So he said, so he said, Well, we don’t have the money to put somebody on the road. And then I countered with well, but don’t you need to put somebody on the road? That is, don’t you have someone in the office that has to go to all the cities to take care of the brand ambassadors and the local staff or whatever I said, I’ll do it. Above. I said, I’ll take their hotel, I’ll take whatever, I’ll do it. Then the next thing you know, like, I’m on a tour bus, touring with Lady Gaga, and that lasted on and off for five years. I mean, I got a I got a pivot, I got stories. Pivot pinic. Yeah, the question. Here’s the question, did touring with Lady Gaga make me a better actor? You’re damn right, it said, because I learned more about myself as an artist. My point of view People what I care about witnessing other people being on tour with Lady Gaga, watching her blow up from the inside. That is invaluable to be on that tour as it grew and to watch her each night in concert as she grew with an artist, invaluable,

HOST  56:17

that learn most from her or from the like people around her.

GUEST  56:24

Both but I learned a lot from her. Because here’s the thing. It’s really interesting. So even being on tour, you know, like, I was in my 30s, right? And, but no one, even though my parents are supportive, and my family’s supportive in their way and all this kind of stuff. Nobody ever said to me, you can do this. You can be whoever you want, you can do whatever you want. Be do it, go for it. Right. No one ever said that to me. And if you know the love languages, like I need words like words are really important to me. I’ve learned that like I I respond to words. And so I’m standing in the arena or in the theater for the first time, where Lady Gaga mid concert says, I’m here to tell you, you know, everyone told me I couldn’t do it. And I wasn’t pretty enough. Nobody was good enough. And I played piano. And I’m here to tell you that you and you’re a superstar, whatever. And I bought like a small trial, I racked my face off. And I was like, wow, like, yes, yes. Wow, holy cow. And everyone in that arena needed to hear it and the theaters needed to hear like, We need someone to say to us, like, you can do it. Like you can be it. You know, and, and it was so I mean, I obviously like I learned a lot from all of the work ethic and all the good monsters and everybody’s, I learned, I mean, forever. I could talk about that, but it’s a bit it was was really important and exciting work. And I came, I came back and I published a book with a little monster. And it was just, it was a magical magical time that changed my point of view as an artist and as a human. And it made me start calling myself an artist, not an actor, not a filmmaker, not a photographer, but an artist, big picture artists, that I do lots of fun and creative stuff that I have, like a world of work that is super exciting and engaging to me. And yes, do like I would like to be a series regular on a show that is network or Netflix or Yes, I still, I think the beauty of this career is that it I am not an athlete that’s going to age out, you know? sure people can say like, oh, you’re too old for this, or I don’t really buy into any of that. I don’t. And I sometimes in my dark moments, am I right? Am I good? Am I but what hasn’t happened yet? No. It’s all happened. Every day, I feel like joy and success. And so here’s the important part that we’re going to tie this together with is me alone in a pandemic in New York City, right? So it’s really actually, but here’s the here’s the thing. It’s really critical, I think, in my life right now. Because what am I doing alone in a pandemic? You know what I’m doing? I’m creating art. I’m making sketches. I’m doing sketch comedy, I’m making videos, because I am happiest when I’m creating. And just because I lost a ton of jobs and gigs and shoots, that someone was gonna pay me for. Like, I don’t. Yes, you want to make a lot of money? Yes, it’s super fun. But like, I create art because I like to tell stories. And I like to share and I like to work through my emotions by telling stories and doing sketches and being funny and weird. And that’s the core of who I am. And so when I’m alone and the pandemic I have found my core really is to sit here by myself and to like, tell stories and make sketches and do things that are resonating with little bits of people at a time and people are saying like, Oh my God, thank you for this. And it, it’s okay that it’s not a billion people, because it’s, I’m doing it, because that’s how I express myself as a human. And that if I sit here in a pandemic alone, and do nothing, I am not joyful. When I dance around in my apartment alone with wigs. You know, I feel a lot of joy. And I’m doing things now, in the sketches that I’m making in the little short videos, I would not be doing if there was not a pandemic. I’ll be on to the next job the next job and hoping somebody else hired me for this and I’ve got other things in the, you know, that I’m working on or whatever. But there is this. I sent this to a friend the other day this sounds super weird because some of my days are terrifying and it’s New York City and whatever and pandemic, but also I feel like I’m in this kind of like, magical portal. You

HOST  60:57

know, do you say you’re in a magical portal?

GUEST  61:00

Yeah, to my desktop, I say I’m gonna magical portal to my best self. If I want that, if I want to take that I could sit here and not do that. Right? But also I’ve been given this gift of time and opportunity. I’m alone with nothing but time in a green screen. What am I gonna do with that? And who am I? Who am I? I’m a creator. So wake up and create something. And if people like it great if they don’t great, cool, whatever, but just get up and do it. And that is where success comes. And that is what people resonate with is when you’re doing it because you want to Yes, you want people to see it. Yes, you want to share the artist to share a feelings. But I feel excited about so weird. This excitement I feel in a way. I know. So weird, but I know at the end of this there will be benefit for me as an artist, because I know how I operate rate. I know how Yes. And I know however, what’s the difference between yes and no and where’s the opportunity in it. And my whole mo is an artist and as a person, my whole life has been trying to carve out opportunities where they didn’t exist because I needed to. Because I needed the next job. I needed the next thing I needed to pay my bills. So it’s like now I say you’re alone? And like, what is what’s the opportunity in there?

HOST  62:25

Yeah, I mean, you’re doing such a great job. I feel like it’s like, you’re just sort of like dealing with it so well, by letting it be a creative outlet for you. It’s wonderful.

GUEST  62:37

And I think Thank you. I think it’s the only way I really know how like, I made a sketch a couple weeks ago called pandemic squares, right? And it’s like, and it’s like, just like Hollywood Squares. I challenged myself to play nine people play a character play and in there was a recurring character already from another game show sketch I made earlier like a pandemic PSA and at the end Have it at the end of pandemic squares. The, mainly the main contestant is a teacher who’s alone on google classroom is through Google Classroom from a bathroom. And she just goes no, and the whole sketch is about, like, if you’re doing your best, you’re winning. Right? The sketches a game show, but there’s the winning and surprise, there’s actually no other competitor to that playing against anyone but herself. You know, and if you’re, if you’re getting through the day, you’re winning, and, you know, that sketches for myself, you know, it’s like, a sketch to tell me remind myself like you’re doing your best, like you’re doing your best. You know,

HOST  63:44

yeah, you are doing our best. I mean, it’s all that you can do. And you seem to be finding a way to you know, tap into that not let the lows be too low or let the lows further you know, inspiring To create something else.

GUEST  64:03

Well, I think the rose I’ve learned, I’ve learned and I don’t know, and maybe you feel if I also, we talked about this a little bit earlier. Before we were officially online about how, you know, when you do a show, and then the show’s over, and there’s all this magic and the magic kind of ends and whatever I know, to my whole life, like when show ends, I’m sad, right? And then there’s a steep blow, I’m never going to do anything cool again, I’m never gonna, you know, and then you know, then you get back to reality. And then you have another thing and so, I I have gotten more comfortable with the ebb and flow. And I’ve been able to sit a little bit more on the David I call it my 2% time. They’re like, 2% time, I’m just dark and I just go there and I am sad. 90% of the time, I’m okay. But what’s important is for me, when I get to my 2% time, I have to allow myself to feel it. Yeah. Act of cry, and after unpack my baggage, like, go through all the baggage and then like put it away. If I try to ignore it, it doesn’t work. So in pandemic time, it’s maybe not 2%. Maybe now it’s 10%, maybe 10% of time, I’m like, is not going so good. But I have to say you’re in the middle and pandemic, if you want to sleep all day, how about it be good? That’s totally good. Yeah. You know, and trying to like, because then I know, if I allow the deep emotion, then it’s like then tomorrow I wake up with a new day wanting to create something wanting to express those feelings differently are warranted, but like, I have to allow the dark. If I don’t allow it to happen, then I then I kind of like, average out the light, if that makes sense. And I can’t get to the good stuff. I can’t get to the high stuff. If I if I don’t acknowledge the dark, then it sort of seeps in and makes everything great.

HOST  65:50

Yeah. Yeah, I feel that way. It’s like, you know, when it feels bad, or when things aren’t going well, I just try and I mean this in a lot. Since not even pandemic times, but like, yeah, you’re, you’re writing you’re performing things are going well. And then all of a sudden, like, your Show’s over, you finished writing that thing. You don’t have another project. Yeah, you’re in this weird Limbo time. Earlier you had mentioned like, the need to go out and experience the world and do that. And I think that it is interesting right now that there’s this Evan flow of like creativity coming out of a time when like, we can’t really interact with each other as much. I mean, like stuff like, this is great. I like being able to do this because like, this is real, that’s a real conversation. Like, we’re having for like a human person. But like, at the same time, like, I even in the regular, you know, honestly, this is, you know, this is in the 200th of of episodes. I’ve talked to a lot of people. Sometimes people don’t give themselves the time to talk to like, have a conversation to like, connect with another human being and I think Then you were saying earlier, like you need to give yourself time to like, live your life and then the other time is creative. Like because it needs to balance out the people who are like not being creative right now. That’s because you’re soaking up the world cultures happening all around you, this is history, and you’re soaking it into your little bones, and then it’s going to come out creatively in whatever way that it’s going to come out later. But right now, it’s like, you know, incubating and like becoming something in the way that so many of our ideas like percolate in our brains for years, you know, this kind of stuff will come out like I’m already certain because like, I’m the kind of person who like when like a big when a big thing happens in the world. I watch for the cultural like, backlash habit or different ramifications. Yeah, so like after 911 as an example, there were that’s when always the superhero like hero movies started coming out. Like there weren’t rows right well then because We needed a hero then. Right? So then all of a sudden, all of our movies were about that. And it’s like, I wonder and I’ve been like trying to think like, what is what’s happening right now to us globally going to lead into in movies? Like, what are horror movies going to be about? isolation? Probably not. Probably not. But like other things, you’re like, how that affects like, I can’t wait and like 10 years for the documentaries, like this crazy thing happened, you know, you’re like, Wow. You know, just know you never know. You never know what is going on. So anyway, you’re great. I’m really thankful that you have like, chatted me up about like, not only not only like your journey, but like just even just talking just now about like, how to create and like keep it up and like, just be an artist like fully, you know, accepting all the different parts. That’s really, it’s been really great and thank you so much for you know, being on the podcast and sharing the stories with me,

GUEST  69:03

oh my gosh, well, I appreciate getting to talk to you. And this has been exciting and I promise you would be a little tangential because you know, pandemic times, but I am, I am very grateful. Talk and, and, you know, and and I’m going to go now I’m going to I’m finishing filming a little, little bit that I’m doing this video that is about trying to find balance, it’s legitimately about trying, it’s a silent film that I keep, like losing my balance. It’s like a film about trying to find balance, like literally

HOST  69:36

finding balance. That video will probably be out by the time this this comes out.

GUEST  69:42

Better be out It better be off by the time it comes out.

HOST  69:46

Make a note to make sure that everyone listening to this can can see that video. But thank you so much, Tracy for being on the podcast and sharing your story. And great advice. Thank you keep up the great work. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. It’s wonderful to talk to you Thank you Thanks for listening to yes but why podcast? Check out all our episodes on yes but why podcasts calm or check out all the content on our network at Universal as HC Universal Network dot com

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