YBY ep 230: Playing games and telling stories with Laxmi Priya!
This week on Yes But Why, I interview Indian improviser and storyteller, Laxmi Priya.
Laxmi Priya is a theatrical performer who participates in the Bangalore Improv Comedy Community. She is a playbacker at CityLamps Playback Theater and an improviser with Improv Comedy Bangalore. She performs in Bangalore’s only all woman improv troupe, The Adamant Eves, as well as various other duo improv troupes in her community.
In our chat, we talk about dance, playback theater, and literary criticism. We talk about analyzing themes in culture and about using satire to talk about tough subjects.
Laxmi talks about the therapeutic effects of storytelling. She explains the performance style of playback theater. She shares stories about her experience performing in The Adamant Eves.
Support Laxmi Priya by watching her Zoom shows with CityLamps Playback Theater and with Improv Comedy Bangalore!
Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com and join the fun.
This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible – get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.
This episode of Yes But Why is also sponsored by PodcastCadet.com. Swing on by PodcastCadet.com to get help for all your podcasting needs! Go to PodcastCadet.com and put in offer code YBY20 to get 20% off your first consultation!
For an ad-free listening experience, click to play OR right click to download
(production notes: recorded Zoom call with Rodecaster at the home studio on 7/27/2020)
TRANSCRIPT by Otter.ai
Hello, Yes But Why listeners, this is your host, Amy Jordan. Welcome to episode 230 of Yes But Why Podcast, my interview with Laxmi Priya, a performer in the Bangalore Improv Comedy Community. But first, let’s check out our sponsors. This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible. You can get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY. You know I’ve been digging in lately to listening to the books on Audible and it really has been the escape I’ve been looking for. Check it out. Really good novels AND some amazing original content! Audible is available for your iPhone, Android, or Kindle. Download your free audiobook today at audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY. This episode of Yes But Why is also sponsored by PodcastCadet.com. Podcast Cadet is dedicated to helping you build your podcast. We will connect you to the resources you’ll need to get better and better with each and every episode. Swing on by PodcastCadet.com to get help for all your podcasting needs! Let us know you heard about us from Yes But Why and you’ll get 20% off the workshop or service you buy! This week on Yes But Why, I have the honor of talking to Laxmi Priya, an Indian theatrical performer who participates in CityLamps Playback Theater and Improv Comedy Bangalore. In our chat, we talk about dance, satire, and the therapeutic effects of storytelling. Laxmi and I really enjoyed our chat and we dug deep into the subjects of culture and empathy. You’ll love it. I now present to you – yes but why episode 230: Playing games and telling stories with Laxmi Priya! Enjoy! I’m Amy Jordan. And this is Yes But Why podcast. Yeah.
So it’s interesting because my father was in defense, which means Air Force, which means we roamed around a lot through the country as I was growing up. And the only connection to cultural things that I had, were these annual dances that the defense colony that I was part of good organized. So every I think around October, November, which is also the puja season, we would have dance competitions. And I and my sister would take part in couple of dance competitions. And that, but the thing is, in my upbringing, we never thought of it as a serious engagement series in the sense of something that requires committed learning. Is this something you did for leisure and you left it behind? And then I did, I studied science during my school, high school. And we I ended up in my 12th grade, also finishing science. And I did this really ridiculous thing of joining a dance crew, which was really ridiculous, because one, I didn’t have training in dancing. But I knew I had a lot of fun while doing that, and second, because it didn’t pay me nothing. And that was the time I was supposed to be studying for the competitive exams, because literally, my whole batch went into doing engineering. Whereas I bumped the physics exam, which is really important to get get a scoring for getting an engineering seat and went for a dance competition instead with my group. And research scale. My mother was like, Ah, so your name is not there. What happened? And I’m like, no, it should be there. I guess I did really poorly. She said, No, even if you did poorly, you’d get a poor rank. But your name is not there at all. And that’s when I had to tell her that I had bunked a class. And then by then I was really into exploring what it would mean to do a humanities undergrad. And not engineering like all my all my batchmates are doing. And that’s when I joined this triple major which was performing arts, English, and psychology. And I had never done theater before. I had never even watched a play. In fact, my worldview was very narrow, narrow, not in the sense that I was ignorant of others. I was ignorant. Not I did not not like them, but I just did not know them. existed. And then as I had joined for dance, but the dance teacher was an absolute tyrant. And I started finding this freedom in theater, the lack of rigidity, the presence of experimentation, which I really enjoyed doing. And I sort of started with playback theater. Yeah, that that’s when I really realized I really enjoy stories and story making and performing it back. It was joyful.
Tell me about playback theater. I’ve heard the phrase before, but I don’t know if I totally understand the form.
Um, so from a reference point of improv playback theater is one where the narrative is given by the teller in that it’s always the playing back or improvising on the real life story that the teller shares. It’s a community on which was founded by Jonathan Fox and Joe Sallis in New York in 1970s. And it has now traveled everywhere, and I it was part of my education when I was learning theater, like I’ve seen. And the form is really interesting, because it has this whole, it is constantly evolving. And it works on the fact that all stories are sort of connected. And one story is while being deeply personal, is also is also resonant with others in the room at the level of the themes at the level of the emotions, at the level of some of the concepts like belongingness, or not belongingness or making connections through stories. So playback theater is often just playing back of stories that are shared by the audience member at the moment through movement, music, physicality, metaphors, and sometimes literal presentations of this story. And it’s often shared that see, first of all, sharing your story at an event itself can be quite cathartic. Or it’s interesting to hear you say that story. And second, seeing it played back can be often therapeutic in nature, because somebody else is assuming your rule and they’re playing it back. While playback This is not therapy, it can have therapeutic effect when done really well. And there’s a lot of literature and theory always being created. And everybody’s really studying the form all the time and challenging the basics and foundations of it, which I really enjoy in the process of community meeting. So that’s playback in a nutshell.
That’s an excellent nutshell. Thank you for that. Now, it sounds like these are playback theater really combines the things that you ended up triple majoring in right Performing Arts, psychology and English What does English mean to you? I know what English means in my college, but what does English mean in your college? Are you also just reading English? Like British literature?
Yeah, that’s a good question. especially coming from a country which was colonized our, we were studying of, you know, the arts would have some reflection. However, having said that, I was very privileged to go to two of the colleges for my masters. So I did then I did masters in English studies to which we’re both we’re very concerned with looking at the course structure and the syllabus quite critically, and bringing in conversations from vernacular literature from, you know, a critical lens of say, feminism or ableism, or diasporic studies. To me now. What English studies means is definitely being able to think in manners that can challenge the status quo or challenge even the process of history making, because I think it was the first time even before I really got into Performing Arts. It was one of the first few classes in English studies during the undergrad. When I was like, my, it was like, you know, one of those glass shattering moments. We were talking, we were talking about the Second Coming the pool. And there’s this whole image of a giant spray spinning and spinning, and the imagery is so beautiful, and suddenly realize, Oh, I have imagined this in my head about being stuck in the pod loop. Even though the poem is not necessarily about that. But I will say oh my god, somebody wrote this. I’m in another century in another era, I’m sitting here in 2011. in Bangalore, and I, I can connect to these words through their imagination. That was quite, I still find it very trippy. Actually, I find I find reading very, very rewarding as a process. Hmm.
Interesting. I love that it is so much about critical thinking and, you know, taking apart literature, I also went to a college that was, you know, super into that there were a lot of philosophy classes, and a lot of all of the they called it lit trad literature traditions, and we had one before. And so like, every year, you took one, they taught you a few things, but there was a lot of, like, literary criticism. And I find in my theatre life, that literary criticism is very helpful, because like, I think of improv, like, I think of literary criticism in that. I read it as an interesting name, scene, or the same thing that’s going on and get two different vibes from it, you know? So then you’re like, yeah, so like, you have two people, they do a scene. And then at the end of the scene, you’re like, hey, when she said this, why did you do that? And that person says, Oh, well, I thought this was going on. And they’re like, what I thought this was going on. And it’s like, yeah, and as opposed to them being like, Oh, I misunderstood. I’m bad. I’m like, No, guys. This is a poem. And we’re all trying to figure out what it means. And we match it with things. Yeah,
absolutely. I, I find that. So thank you for saying that. Because I have been something that I’ve been really confronted with and been thinking about is holding complexities, which can often also have contradictions gently, you know, like, you’re reading a scene, like you said, like a text almost. And you’re thinking about, okay, so contradictory thoughts can exist without each having to sort of cancel each other out. Like one person could be thinking eggs and other person could be thinking why. And as an observer, it’s also beautiful to watch how those two journeys unravel to make a scene. Yeah,
yeah. Plus, it’s also so interesting, like when you start thinking about performance, from the point of view of the audience, and you’re like, yeah, there’s 50 people in that room, that’s 50 different perspectives. They all came from different things today, they came and sat down, they have different worldviews, and they are going to receive what you gave them differently. And so yeah, when people try to like lump everyone in, I’m like, No, I want to talk to everyone. I wish we could do an outro of every show. Be like, tell me what you thought, what was your favorite? What did you hate? Just give me your vibes. Like when you came in, were you having a good day or a bad day? Like, just the idea of that is so like, fascinating to think how all those things come together. And of course, you’re talking about two contradictory ideas happening at once. I feel like that’s the world, right?
Not only the idea of cognitive dissonance, which I feel like is like the buzz word or buzz phrase of 2020. For sure. But like, but like, even just regular, not even like, You’re telling me a and I don’t believe you because that hurts my feelings. It’s like, you just, well, my life experience is this. So when you give me this situation, I react to it this way. But your life is different. You know, it’s like, oh, my goodness. So, so fascinating. Right. And then also, yeah, just to bring it back to like, right now. As far as like looking at the world, like it’s like, it’s all something to be literally criticized. Yeah, I made it. I’m the I try to look at like the larger sense like, Hey, why are we all baking? Like, what is it about that, that made us feel better, like different things? Like, we’re different? I always try to follow cultural trends. Like, like when, when a bunch of movies come out that are similarly themed. I go, Hey, what about that theme was inspired by a year ago? Right? Yeah. What’s happened in our cultural consciousness that made us small, you know, like the big boom of superhero movies was right after we had 911. People were like, We need a hero. Let’s get those heroes up. Hey, guys who’ve been writing heroes, too. The 40s, could we grab your characters and put them on stage with some mock guys got it? And then we did it. And everyone was happy, right? It’s like, yeah, trying to figure out how those things work and how things connect to bring it back down to like improv scenes like, yes. See the way a whole group of people reacts to an idea? Like you were talking about talking about tough subjects? I’m sorry, I’m talking so much. And it’s your interview?
No, you’re really good. I think that means it’s a we’re both very, extremely engaged.
So when I am teaching sketch writing, I will talk about satire, because satire is a tough thing. But I think that it’s very necessary. And I think that it’s important for creative people to use their talents to communicate this kind of stuff. Because I think creative people have a wider breadth of empathy available to them purely out of the fact that they’re interested in a wide view of stories and points of view. And so they’re going to be more open to exploring topics, then people who are not creative. We’re not mainly creative. Anyway, I think every human is creative. But anyway, there are some people that like, reject it and don’t want to critically think and some people who are open to every possible point of view and say like, explain it to me, I just want to know why you think that. So satire for me is like taking tough subjects, and then softball pitching them in so that they can watch this story. And go, I don’t know why this woman won’t give these two guys ice cream. She’s so silly. And then by the end of the scene, realizing the scenes about gay marriage, or maybe you don’t, maybe you watch the whole scene, and you never know what it’s about. But you still are like, Hey, what do you think? Do you think that lady should have given those two men? The ice cream they were asking for? I mean, it was the law that they could have ice cream, but she was like, you guys are an abomination. You can’t have ice cream. And they’re like, No, I mean, it’s just ice cream. Give it to them rights for everybody.
Yeah, usually Sadat is done so sensitively and intelligently is also such a such a PR thing of joy in that I was just thinking about what we were talking about, about improv being also being a text for us to read and seeing what patterns repeat themselves and who are the people who get to talk the most about improv who get most represented during scenes, or who are offstage, who gets to make the calls, etc. That is, as much a reality is also talking about the joy that is playing together as people who like each other on stage. satire is also I think about bringing together that are intelligent, I guess, some wording of the harmful and problematic stuff outside, also, while giving absolute joy of watching something intelligent, and someone speak from a space of empathy. Because otherwise, sometimes talking about difficult topics, or topics, or topics that are, I guess, loaded, and rightfully so becomes often preachy. And I will speak for myself, sometimes when I launch into this conversations, a lot of my friends, especially not from theater background, tend to think of tend to one style. Stop me. I say, again, being like, Oh, you take life too seriously, why must we always talk about this heavy stuff? Can we talk about our childhood nostalgia, or whatever, you know, but this is like, like you said, consuming or being exposed to conversations that are important, without making it seem like a taxing thing. You know, yeah, so I really, I really agree.
Yeah, that makes me think, to bring it back to the poetry that we were talking about that a lot of people, you know, we’re doing that with their poems, you know, they’re talking about some very serious topics, but if it’s about a flower, then it’s like, oh, yeah, that’s fine. There’s a nice little thing about flower and you’re like, this is a story about a man beating his wife. How are you not reading this? Like when it’s not, but it’s like a different you know what I mean? Like, you can essentially you can choose to ignore it, if you’d like. Yeah, you can choose to look at the artwork as artwork, or you can look in and and see what the deeper story is or third up you can see what reflects back to you of yourself and have that as well. Because like you think about songs, for instance, you listen to music, you usually take a song and you turn it into something that has to do with you. Right? We take that music and all of a sudden, it’s like, this is about me, this is about my life. This understands me. It’s like this man who lives in Los Angeles and wrote this pop song has never met you. He doesn’t know that this is about his girlfriend. It is not a thing. You know, it’s like, it’s so funny. But it connects because it has that, because it is art. And it has the ability to be seen for himself for its message or for its reflection of you.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So you’re
in school, you’re learning all about playback theater, which also I think reflects a lot of the stuff that we’ve been talking about the criticism, the tough topics, the stuff like that. Oh, one question I had about playback theater. You mentioned a lot of sort of, you said metaphorical things, there are a lot of I want to use the word absurd. But like, you know,
Yes, that’s the word I’m looking for. Thank you are there are a lot of abstract pieces in the playback of the story, meaning like it’s dance without words. And it’s like, moving of physical objects without it having directly to do with the theater. I mean, the story itself, how does the scenes work.
So as with improv, even playback, the amount that I have seen, also, big shout out to I btn, which is international playback theater network, which had which had conference, it has a conference every four years, the last one was in Bangalore, and it was held hosted by the actors collective. So that was in Bangalore. So we got to experience a lot of playback from across the world. So the spectrum of playing back is often anywhere between literal playing back to absolutely abstract the way you express it. And then there are all teams which sort of mix and match these elements of say, even magical realism, or very naturalistic, playing back to very abstract claim that the one thing that holds everything together is the question, is this in service of the teller story? So you can go deep into a story. But the question is, even if you are completely abstract, in your playing back, are you still rooted in the story which was shared, because at the end of the day, I think, for me, at least, the idea of playback is not being entitled to anybody’s story. Because, you know, like, you’re saying, there are 30 people who have come into the Zoom Room, they are thinking it’s going to be theater based, they don’t know what playback and suddenly you’re like, so we don’t have a script, whatever you shared with us is going to be what we reflect back to you, there is no reason for us to assume that they want to share, or we are entitled to their stories. So we create a space where they feel like they want to share and we take it with that sort of respect to for the gift of the real life story that they have shed, for example, even if the story is something like you know, I went out and I bought an apple, I came back and I loved that Apple, it’s still a story, which is worth playing that ad with as much respect as other stories that we have had across time that we have been doing like, there have been many coming out stories, there have been stories about sexism or sexual assault, domestic abuse. So while all each story is unique, and has its own gravity, all stories also deserve respect. So I guess, as long as an interplay of these abstract and literal elements can serve the purpose of playing back the story, I think it can be used all of them all of those are modes to sort of reach the what is called the heart of the story. And there are always multiple parts of a story. But these are the modes to reach them while playing back. Hmm.
Do you rehearse with your playback theater troupe and do games and practice scenes or are you you know, doing various scene work exercises or both?
Short answer is both. We saw the troupe that I co founded and I’m part of, is called city lamps. And we our practice session sort of looks different for different folks with different experience of number of years, for example, for example, we have some of my improviser friends who have just joined city lamps, who have been doing playback only for as long as the lockdown. So they have never necessarily done physical playing back. They’re mostly done only zoom playing by which I find so interesting. The reversals often are based on the on the skills that we need for good playing back, for example, deep listening, how to listen to a story without hearing your own bias of the story. Because if we play back our biases about that story, then the teller is going to it not only is it going to be disrespectful, the teller is going to disconnect from it immediately. For example, if some it can be a very small bias also and seemingly a harmless bias, for example, if somebody said, you know, my partner, and they probably said their partner, because they don’t want to tell us their gender. And we might not realize it, but we might give a pronoun to it by playing back. And those can be small spaces where the audience disconnects, because they made a very conscious choice to say, partner, and you might have I might have not deeply listened to that choice, and might have done a great playing back, but might have said he or she while they did not give a pronoun to their partner at all. So that’s one of the modes, we work with deep listening. Then we work with just tools like how to use body to maximum, you know, output of meaning how can we play back using our body, then there are different formats. In playback, which we rehearse a lot. Then there is music, how to work together with music as a playback or musicians or also play backwards, but thereafter, of course, giving a lot more of the skill as much as the actors but we need to start listening to the musicians too, because the atmosphere in a playback show is often created by the musician, at least at City lamps. We rely heavily on the musician for atmosphere creation, the folks have usually just began playing back right now. We work a lot with the foundations. Like how to play a story back how to how to play back empathetically. Mostly how to play back without our own but as much as possible, our biases, not dictating the choices we make. And then of course, having fun with the playing back, which is just connecting together playing some games, sharing stories. So yeah, that’s usually how the rehearsals go.
Wow, that’s pretty amazing. I love the deep listening. I think that that’s such an important part about improv. And you know, when I’m teaching my level one classes, I that’s my number one thing, I’m like, you guys can secretly tell each other 1000 things. Wow, the audience knowing, like, if you say this phrase this way, you’re telling him XYZ. But if you say it this way, there’s no extra information in it. Like try your best to use your words as well as you can and also to listen to the tiny clues each one of you are giving one another. Yeah, I always feel about physicality that it is really great to use as a setting tool. Like it creates a space it creates a vibe of the space like you’re like, is this person happy or sad? Are they having a good day or not? Is this room clean or messy? like different details that like help explain stuff? You know?
like, a, like, just the other day I was watching making a weird Avengers reference strapping. Right, they’ll in the loop, what does it end game Thor is a fat and sloppy. And now usually because I am also fat I get mad at at things in movies and television that are using fatness to indicate a specific emotional state because I don’t think it actually invades that emotional state. However, I will actually Except this because the scenario is such that Thor is not taking care of himself, because he’s suffering about something that he did that he feels weird about and conflicted. And so the idea of that physicality, explains and says so much to the audience that they don’t have to say, to bring back the idea of tough conversations. They don’t have, like, Thor is having a hard time because he murdered a guy. And he feels conflicted, because he doesn’t know if murder was really the right plan for a person who considers themselves a euro. And now now he can’t go back to just being the king of this area, with no repercussions. And his friends are dead. So that’s what we’re talking about. But they don’t say that, right? They just looking at him. He’s got a beer belly and he stares off and they’re like, Is he okay? No. And that’s it. Right? It explains everything, the physicality of that. And I you know, like, you can do that on stage, you can show your shoulders slumped. And, and you know, you’re, you’re not paying attention. It’s like, What’s up, man? I don’t know, I’m not paying attention. And that character is like, oh, man, Thor is having a tough time, right. And you just tiny moves can communicate to everybody else in the scene, that vibe. So I don’t know, I love those tiny detail things that are I think it
adds so much texture to
do a scene, it adds those those lovely gifts that we can give each other beat character traits or stuff that we find together in a scene. It’s almost like playing hide and seek together playing playing like a nice game.
So I wanted to ask you further about so after you went to college, and you start performing, how do you get involved in and you’ve like gone to school for a while you were in regular University, then you got a Master’s? That’s a lot. Yeah, I don’t know how old you are. But I’m assuming you’re still quite young. So that was recently. How did you get yourself into the community? Like with improv comedy, Bangalore and the Adam and Eve’s? How do you get connected to the communities after college?
So I was I graduated from my postgraduate degree in 2016. I was doing playback all along. So I had learned it in undergrad and my master’s degree was like eight hours from Bangor, the city where I had studied undergrad, and I would keep coming back to do different workshops and just to keep playing back with my team. So when once I came back after my graduation, I was still performing playback theater with them. And it had already been around, say, eight years, seven, eight years since I started performing with a lot of them. I mean, the the composition, of course, changed in all those years. But But I was before I had been I had a long history with that team. And as I was performing with them abishek this I who is a who is one of the co founders of improv comedy bandler was also in that team with me in that playback team. And he told one of my other friends who I was really close to in the playback team that she should she should audition for this all women’s improv team. And she asked me if I would go along with her for moral support. I was a show I know it sounds like a good plan. We just hang out we’ll get some food after that. So it can be dinner thing. I will come along and when I got there, I had not known improv at all in any form. I did not grew up watching you know Whose Line is it Anyway or Saturday Night Live because my my pop culture consumption was very tumble very malayalam very Indian vernacular. I started watching english movies only in my 11th grade. In fact, I didn’t speak English very well till my sixth grade because I did not have anybody to speak English with. But anyway, and then I see these games that are being played, and obviously asked if I dare to just get in an audition to and when I was like, Okay, if auditioning is just playing these seemingly wonderful games, and I remember we played, we played three pillars there, you know. You say one line that your partner says Another useful one more and the scene is over. We played that. Then we played a chair game I remember then we played a space object creation game. And it was just so much fun that I was like, Okay, I really want to do this. And then I got through the audition along with Kavya and Shweta will also I will also auditioning with me that particular audition. And it was just wonderful. Also, I’ve been really I was my friend didn’t stick though she also had gotten selected in the audition. But she after a while chose not to continue with the adamant ease. But I sort of really enjoyed the all women’s space that it provided. Also, I had grown up with mostly female friends and I, I really mostly get along with women a lot. And I didn’t have many male friends at least until that point. Now I do have a little more number of friends who identify as men. But yeah, the idea of this old woman space and just having so much fun together while playing games really appealed to me. And that’s why I stayed. Having said that it’s only been two and a half years I’m still figuring out the ropes of the form. I still don’t find myself too confident to say hey, I understand improv completely. Which is why when you’re saying about you know, you need to be a certain level have experienced to be okay with deep listening during improv scenes. I feel like I’m still grappling with that I’m able to do it quite well in playback theater. But with improv, I’m still learning to not panic at the idea of having to have a good scene or a funny scene. So yeah,
now are you guys in the abdomen Teves working towards comedy or are your scenes also dramatic?
I think we, we are definitely working towards improv of listening. So some of our some of our scenes end up being hilarious just because we are having fun. But we definitely don’t try to make the comic scenes, the we have a mix easily. And also the forms that we often choose our montage is and Armando, we had a crossword format for a while. All of these are formats which allow for a variety of scenes to emerge. So often, it’s grounded in just having played together a lot. Because we really have fun playing together and finding the humor in it. And the drama in it, we often have many moving real life stories that are shared. We have such a lot of silence in a lot of our scenes. So yeah, it’s a mix of both I would say and because one of the first few things that we learned from Biola and MK two, especially because they were they had been in the team for long RTX. Two was that you don’t have to be funny. And there was a collective relaxation of shoulders as soon as they said that, because that was everybody’s fear. Everybody knew by joint during that time, oh my god, how to be funny. I’m not funny, you know. And there’s such a gendered thing. Also there because women are not funny, apparently. That’s like a baggage you get into an improv room with. So to hear that. Anything that comes out of authentic connection and listening here is great, was a big bow meeting moment for a lot of us in admin teams.
Hmm. The reason why I asked about the comedy aspect is just, you know, there’s, I personally think there’s like different ways to prepare for that. As far as like, for me, I’m a big structure person. So like, I try to explain to my, like, beginner students, just the basic structure of comedy and like comedy is not like, oh, you’re funnier. Not everyone can do comedy. comedy is a series of repetitions that the audience recognizes. There’s no there’s there’s some people that can deliver it better than others. Yeah, but comedy is like, it’s like a, like a formula. There’s not, you know, you. I’ve literally watched a pie in the face three times in a row in the inner show. Make an audience cheer at the third one. Like it’s a pie in the face. It’s the simplest, silliest, most unnecessary thing in the world, but could not have been more excited when that third pie popped up. When they like the place lit up for life. I know is that guys yell at me. Yeah.
And then our DNS is just so I don’t know, child’s like guffawing and just losing it, basically.
But that’s the other thing that I’m like I want to debunk for people, especially people who are being told that women can’t be funny, you know, human, human animals, no matter what their gender can say things out their face, and people are gonna laugh, because it’s not about I have a skill or a talent. It’s about I created I presented information to you in a certain format. And that format is what made you laugh. Like you can watch certain things like for instance, the the improv format of the Herald, right? Yeah, I don’t know if I’m going to hope that you’ve seen an episode Yes. On Yeah,
I know if I no offense. Yeah.
No, I know, you know, of Harold. But the show the television shows Seinfeld. If you watch the television show Seinfeld, it’s a herald. It is literally create, like, when you watch the format of the show them connecting with each other versus going out on their own individual adventures. Are is a herald. Like, the format, it makes sense. We return to them as like, they’re all like this crazy things going on in the world. No, like, That’s crazy. And then each one of them go out on an adventure. And we watch Jerry do something and George Jews do something and Elaine do something. And then they come back and they reflect upon what just happened. Like, it’s, it’s the setup of that. It’s and that’s why people like Oh, it’s so great. Yeah, it’s great. It’s great, because it’s a funny thing, set up situations, but the format leads you in the path of the comedy, right, like, yeah, so, for me, I always try to debunk that idea of improv comedy being scary. I’m like, yeah, I’m like, No, no, also improv. When I teach level one, I’m like, as long as you speak, I’m happy. That’s it. That’s all I got. Right? Like, yeah, or it’s like you You did it? Like, that’s it. That’s all I need you to do for me to be so happy for you. You know,
I think that’s such a great way of being a facilitator. Because Yeah, it’s not saying, Oh, you do the bare minimum, I’m happy to say, Hey, I understand it’s difficult to you know, get into a class, and you know, make things up, especially when we don’t necessarily live like that out there in the real world. So this becomes sort of a space where you’re expected to let go of all the masks you there to exist outside. So as a facilitator, when I am imagining, as you’re seeing me being in your class, when you see that, oh, you spoke, that’s amazing. And you say that with absolute conviction, I feel I feel victorious. And I feel like I want to learn more from you. And I feel open to try more things. So yeah, that’s awesome.
Now for you guys. What is the since you’re joining Adam and Eve without necessarily having that much of a background in improv, how much work are you guys doing on a regular basis to get together as a team before you start performing? Or do they just throw you in the fire right away?
Oh, the first time when we performed we had, so there was a set pattern of at least three to four rehearses before each shoe. So that was sort of understood that we had to do that. So we had a first show after a couple of rehearsals, but a lot of us were really still worried, because we didn’t feel ready to sort of perform. But since then, what is happened that we moved into the space where we are also each other’s very good friends and confidants. So, we sort of know and also, we have been now that this team has been together for at least two years, the other current admin Eve’s team, which means we almost, you know, you know, being able to read each other. So we are able to read each other. So the amount of reversals have gone down during the lockdown time, but what has happened is that the number of shows have gone up. So we are able to do shows, and again, be with each other a lot more. One, one ritual that we always usually do is checking in before reversals and sometimes somebody needs the half of the reversal to be a check in because they are coming from a difficult place or they’re coming from a place of different kind of emotion, emotional peak. So we just, you know, pause our rehearsal and just listen to them or it, listen to the Listen to me. And then Sort of space of being together and connection really then ends up showing on stage. So sometimes it is rehearsal like hardcore rehearsal, we go through the structure, we do it couple of times. And a lot of times it’s this axillary things like warming up together, telling each other words going on in our lives checking in. And then we look physically also around, we would do visualizations before show, that’s something I really swear by, which is just closing our eyes and imagining that the show would be great imagining the audience seated, imagining us walking onto the stage, and imagining us doing a wonderful show and imagining us walking out. So all of these little parts together, I guess, is what, what makes Adam and Eve’s at this point in time. And last, but most important thing is also there have an there have been under always disagreements between members. But Bala as an artistic director, and also as as people have created, strongly believe that we need to make space to have those conversations. And those are not, they have time. But those are almost as important, if not more important than rehearsals themselves when we disagree, or we feel disrespected or undervalued to speak up and say, Hey, I think I need more validation, or Hey, I think the way you shared that left me feel not included, or to say that, hey, we are moving too fast, I am not able to keep up, can we slow down as a team? I need to take a break for a while, etc, etc. So having those, quote unquote difficult conversations have also gone a long we in being sense.
Yeah. I think one of the great things about improv troupes, especially ones that stay together multiple years, like you guys have is the just basic human connection that you have between the people. I mean, when I’m teaching classes, I’m essentially trying to fast track that connection. Over the course of eight classes. It’s like, Okay, I guess, 16 hours to make these guys best friends, like, legitimately my job. Because once they are open to one another, and once because if your friend, if your best friend says something that is weird, and potentially offensive, you’re going to deal with him in a much different way than a person who is a stranger to you. Absolutely. Right. And so in the case of any improv scenario, you need to be able to trust the people around you. So that as words just fall out of their mouths, if it turns out that something they say is like crazy, and you need to like wrap it around something else to make it a little less crazy, then yeah, it would be easier and also understanding with your friends, if you’re like, well, this thing is not we’re gonna talk about right now. And then they get it. And it’s not like they’re mad, like, how dare you take away my idea, but they’re like, You’re right. I shouldn’t have brought that up or whatever. Like, yeah, like, I know, I’m using like a vague, vague thing, but you know,
definitely resonating. I absolutely agree.
I mean, I love the fact that you guys are connected as friends like, that is what you’re looking to do, if you the check into is really great. Because to feel the temperature of the room and to feel the temperature of each other and where you’re at mentally, can totally give you just the tools that you need to communicate in a way that like, potentially, you know, you wouldn’t have if you were unaware that like they just had a terrible day at the office. Yeah, yeah, damn right before they left work, and they’re afraid they’re gonna get fired. And like, potentially knowing that when you’re doing a scene, maybe you can do something in that scene to make them feel better. Like, Hey, man, it looks like you lost something. But you found that So hey, Brightside, right. And like find a way to like, make that person feel better. You know, as a friend.
There’s something in being able to say he’ll lean on me on stage while knowing that they can lean on you or stage and yc versa. There’s something powerfully connecting about that.
Yeah, definitely. Like the trust that you can have between people is, you know, it’s really important to put out there it’s really important for people to feel like especially because improv is like is Like performing without a net, and you need to be able to be the net for each other.
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.
Like, you know, you’re not gonna go up on the high wire and do some acrobats without somebody you totally trust to catch you.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
So for you what is the I know that you’ve been doing so many zoom shows and you just finished your 24 hour improv marathon? What for you is the like, exciting thing that’s going on for you right now. What are you excited about creatively?
Ooh, that. So this is an exciting question. I, I was I was leaning on the wall too. Now. Now I just sat up straight, because that’s a great question. I can name two, three things. Sure.
Whatever you like.
Ah, yay. Okay. So, first and foremost, it’s my duo with abishek, the friend I was talking about who asked my other friend to audition. And we both do, we will do a duo called them, which is mostly organic improv. So we just see where the suggestions take us. And we get inspired by the scenes that we do. And then we just go ahead and we have a particular show called, everybody just wants to dance, which we are quite, always excited about. But we have not done it in a while since a lockdown began. So we are excited about rebooting that. However, what we did was start a live talk show, we did three episodes of that we spoke about, you know, audience and performance, safety, performers safety, we spoke about being silly, during how to bring the silliness into a performance. And then we spoke about the body in in a performative space in three different episodes. So to go back and take stock of those shows, and how we want to go forward is something I’m really excited about with Abby shadyside. Then Paula, who also I know, India, she’s wonderful. Whom you have interviewed is, we also have a have a duo called shadows, which is something we are really excited about. It’s quite a, it’s quite an interesting and earnest adventure into the dark spaces that folks go into. So we have anonymous sharing sheet where people share about dark thoughts or thoughts they’ve had, which have made them go, Oh, I shouldn’t be having this thought, which you know, sometimes ranges from sort of like plants to plans to murder to like just shoplifting ideas. And so we then improvise with that. So that someday, and we’ll we have had one premier show and one full length show. And we are quite proud of it. And we quite like playing with each other because it’s quite easy to read each other for all the reasons that we spoke about earlier. And I’m definitely excited about writing about improv and playback. This is something I’ve been trying to give more and more time to. And lastly, I think I’m really excited about community building because we had the 24 hour marathon and of course, Bala and Jude were the CO artistic directors of ICB sort of held it so powerfully. And for us who is on tech, almost all of 24 hours, we wouldn’t have been able to do it without him. But as importantly, we had a whole 20 odd number of people who just dead through trade for hours at all big part chunks of those hours, just saying hey, I’m here, what do you need, hey, I’m here do you need for us to make a zoom account. So what sort of facilitation of a community makes that possible for folks to feel valued for folks to feel like they can challenge things about how things are going and they can feel like they can take ownership of a community. So that’s something I’m very, not as excited about, but very puzzled by which feeds into each other. When I’m really puzzled. I’m like, Oh, this is exciting. Let’s figure it out. And when I’m figuring it out, I’m excited about figuring it out. So that’s something but it can be quite a daunting task to because time and logistics is real. And if I had all the time in the world, I’d like to fly for everything to be as democratic as possible. And you know, I’m tangled each each thread of emotion or, or hurt or lack of validation that has been caused. But But I guess running around running a community is also about logistics. So I’m very excited about how these two in need and what the ideal balances.
So one thing I would say is that those two things you’re talking about are two separate jobs and should rarely be intertwined, right, like so there’s a person or people a committee, perhaps, who like talks to people, and helps them with their grievances and deals with the rubber parts. And then there’s other people who are in charge of scheduling, and wrangling and making people go there because the vibes required in those human beings are going to be different, you know, like the the committee to help people needs to be warmer, and more motherly, and kind of like, Hey, I love you no matter what. But the boss who’s getting you to schedule has to be like, Johnny, you’re gonna show up on time, you’ve been late the last three times we need you to get here, are you gonna do it? If not, you’re out. Like there needs to be today. And I know that mothers also do that. But I mean, like, yeah, you know, one needs to be warmer, and then one needs to be more like, like you said, logistical, we need to get this done, you know. So all I’m saying is, I appreciate the idea that you are learning and trying to like figure it out. But I don’t want you to put all of those things on a single person, ie you, with the idea that you would be required to do all of those jobs in like, together all at once. Yeah, beauty community is that you can share
the who dad was
disseminating. And, you know, you know, and we what you said is so interesting, because I’m also thinking about if those two can sort of coexist, and I definitely think these are rules wise, different rules, but something I’ve been thinking about is also giving the agency to the people, if it makes sense, you know, like, hey, see, this is a structure and structures go a long way for that structure and transparency. For example, if you’re transparent about the faculty, you need to like, like the adamant user with me when I origin, see, Hey, dude, you need to come for three rehearsals, anything less than that, we can’t have you in the show, because you wouldn’t feel ready to be on stage, you know, then as a person that I know that, okay, if I haven’t, the onus is on me to show up for three reversals. So I guess the idea of whom the onus is placed on and how it is pleased is also something that I’m interested in. But definitely, I agree about the warm white and no unconditional sort of support. Yeah.
Well, I mean, I feel like to like, people, especially if they’re not, if you’re not as close to a person. Yeah. Like if they’re not your best friend, but there’s someone you know, and someone who’s a leader, you know, you consider them one thing. You look at them, and it’s sort of two dimensional scenario. You’re like, yeah, guys, the boss, he tells me where to go, okay. Yes, persons in charge of schedule, when she says, I get there, I gotta get there. Right? If I don’t, one of two of those Pete one of those two people, or potentially a third, or the person who’s gonna yell at me for not accomplishing? Yes, great. And the harder part is that, like, in the scenario of this thing, it can get very disheartening, because you’re very excited. And I’m very excited. And I’ve been in theaters like, wanting to run everything and make sure to take care of everyone and do everything. Yeah. And it’s just too much to try to do all yourself. And also, like, people do creative stuff for different reasons. And sometimes being dedicated to the community or showing up to rehearsal on time are not goals they have for themselves, you know, you just can’t, can’t like force a person to look at the world the way you want them to look at the world. You have to just share the way they do it and see if you can’t fit them in as their own puzzle piece. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And the artists part is like, the follow up, like, yes, you have to be the three rehearsals before you do this show. If you when you do this show, you earn, you know, you earn your place in this other thing, and then blah, blah, blah, you move yourself up whatever the pathway is for your community. But then if anybody at any point fails, but is given a pass, then it Yes, the whole system, right. Mike Suzanne was supposed to be at three rehearsals, but Tom said it’s fine that she only did too. So now she’s gonna show she missed that one day we’re all talking about lemons. I’m making these lemon jokes. She’s not picking them up. Right, like, all this thing, but then what’s gonna happen we’re gonna yell at Susie, we’re gonna be like, Hey Susie, how dare you? She’s like Tom gimme. Right. So in this whole conflicted, like scenario Are you then have to juggle? I don’t know, I love community stuff because it’s confusing this because of the deed now. Yeah. Because of how messy it gets. But I doubt it even.
Yeah, you have to be on your toes all the while and you have to keep reinventing it.
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, certainly cultural changes have happened since the moment I learned improv was a thing through to now, the like way that people look at improv and the way that they we build communities even here, like is so different. And some of the worst things that have happened have been things that have informed better moves in our communities like a theater I was a part of, was revealed that the artistic directors were deeply taking advantage of people. And like dating people they shouldn’t have dated and like promising shows and like giving opportunities to people based on like, underhanded favors and stuff and stealing money. And that lesson like once that came out, and everyone across around the town heard about it, it made every theater improve. They’re like, what was going on? So sincerely, who were like, by the way, everyone, that’s not okay. In case it was unclear, don’t Yeah, our students and like, Don’t steal money. And like half the theaters got cameras put in and half the theater like things where it was like, we did not think we had to worry about this. But now we have to worry about this. So the whole community adjusted. And I felt really like, I was happy that we were able to turn around a negative thing to a positive thing. But it was hard and it was negative. And I still still feel the stain of the negativity all the time. So it’s like, the community aspect in the individual theaters. And then in the whole city is such an interesting wild thing. I think it’ll be great. I look forward to hearing about, you know, all the theaters, you start running and everything you figure out just because it’s so like being I am so interested in the way people interact and the way people can experience stuff. And I am also deeply fascinated by reactions that I think are terrible. Like when I’m like, why would a person do that? I became immediately I like this to me why things say
remember is when, you know, we were both admin teams. And then which is my dual with a beaver selected for Singapore improv Festival, which was supposed to be in April, this this year? Yeah. We all had started saving up etc, etc. And that’s when the the pandemic happened. And the organizers of Singapore improv festival were the kindest and most empathetic and their communication was so transparent one, so kind two and three, also almost understanding the place that everybody else would be in. It was very empathetic. And I was very surprised and very honored to have witnessed that I was very, it was very moving actually the way Singapore impro festival responded to, to everything that happened because as if one thing we all know is nobody was expecting this. Nobody knew what to do as soon as it broke. Because till I guess in January, almost they were like, okay, maybe the festival will happen. Maybe you guys really be able to travel and come but then it was very clear early on that that’s not going to be possible because of the COVID virus. Yeah.
It was so hard to get a like really establish what the right move was for so many months. Like Yeah, but do you know how global it was gonna get like cuz I was on a trip at a podcast festival in Florida in March. I was literally brain I wasn’t going to be able to get home. Like I was staying with my mom who lives in Florida and hanging out with her and thinking like two things. One, is this the last time I’m going to see my mother and then to me and I get out of here to get home to my husband. like am I going to be stuck in Florida for the next you know, six months to a year who knows? I mean, can you imagine that would have been crazy. But thankfully we were able to get out and then like maybe the week after is when they really started like going like okay limits on who’s traveling bubble blah But it was my God, just a realization like, my so my mom’s up in Boston now helping to she’s selling the house we grew up. We grew up in, and my cousin went up to help her clean it out, right? literally like a week after she arrived, the like, Massachusetts mayor was like, people from outside Massachusetts will have to be quarantined for two weeks before they’re allowed to interact with the public. And they had been there already for two weeks. Now admittedly, they’re sort of quarantine because they’re in the house with each other, and not really many other people. But it was like, but it was like, Wow, you guys got in. So like, just under the wire. Before Massachusetts, it was like, nope. Especially Florida and Texas. The two hotspots states that are like, everyone’s like, don’t come in, don’t visit us. Stay in your state, right? We’re like, oh, man, can I just visit? Nope, sorry. But like, just all these all this uncertainty, you just don’t know how to deal with stuff. Like, it is so nice to hear. And also all the stuff that’s happened. I feel like I’ve learned so much about how to be a business with grace. Like, yeah, your experience that you’re having with the Singapore festival. Sounds wonderful. Like, I’m so glad that the organizers were able to deal with it calmly. And to compose emails to everyone that was involved in a way to be like, we care about you so much. We wish we could have this turns out probably not. Yeah, like, but there have been so many businesses that have handled this badly, like said names where it was like, oops, that’s gauche. Or like, they are even major businesses where you’re like, Are you kidding? They’re bankrupt. Like, what? I can’t believe this. Um, it’s been a very interesting thing to see how I also worry about theatres, to be honest with you. As far as like, you know, you’ll find out which theaters have a solid business plan, and which do not, which have halvings put away for just this kind of thing and which don’t. And the problem will be, you know, it’ll suss out in whatever way it ends up. And we’ll, you know, reconfigure as a community, which, again, is why it’s great that you are excited to be a community leader, because you are needed, right? And in the world, when it readjusts and this company closes, and that company closes and people are looking for somewhere to go and connect. It’s nice to know that they’ll have you and other people like you who are like trying to bring community together and find a way to keep it going. Whether there’s a physical theater space or not.
So for you, since you’ve been involved with this kind of theater, and you sort of flipped your life in a very drastic way. Skipping that test who bowled That being said, our experience my experience with you on social media and seeing those photos of you shaving your head. I’m like, she’s a bold lady. That’s what she does. She’s strong. She likes a drastic change. I’m into it.
Yes, I really enjoy going bald once in like three years. It’s a it’s a wild it’s nothing in my life quite compared to that experience. It’s so it is a relatively such a simple thing. You cut your hair, you went bald, that’s all. But the sort of changes that you see in everybody around you in strangers in the way you take space in the public realm. Everything sort of changes and it’s very amusing. Hmm.
I think there’s something really great about taking a chance like that. About Yeah, bold and that way. A lot of people don’t want to, you know, make waves ever in their lives. They want to just pass through and have no one notice. And, you know, sure most of us in the theater realm we’re looking for a little attention, but my guess but it’s not always about just like, you know, bare bones ego like yeah, look at me, I’m cool. Like, it’s just about like, some little movement that I make is going to shake up your life. And it’s not because it affects me. I’m fine. I got a haircut. I’m much cooler. But um, but he the reactions and think about these people who have the huge reactions, how much you’ve changed their life in that moment. Like how much they’re like wait, that’s a thing that you can do. Like, I can’t tell you the number of times where I’ve seen somebody do something and then go. I didn’t even know that was the thing. I didn’t know. Yeah, I hear you. It’s like, Who is it possible? Yeah, definitely. Right. And but like, that’s, that’s part of the artistic bent. That’s part of your, you know, like the way you are performing in your life. And I love that. I love that because people need to see something that they don’t expect occasionally. And it doesn’t affect them in a negative way. So why not, like surprise them every once in a while, and they’re like, Ah, what did well, that’s the thing we can do. Like, you know, those guys are going out and like, I’m cutting my hair to let’s do it. You know, everyone’s going home bald dude. Like, what’s going on? Like, it’s a fad. Now. It’s very cool. I almost did it. I mean, like I saw, I had just gotten my haircut. Right before I saw your video, and I was like, I wish I wish I had just done that. Because my hairdresser was was bald. She had, she had shorn herself. With the at the beginning of COVID. She was like, I just didn’t want to have to deal with it. She’s like it just like it was something that I could just clear up. And she said, because she has to wear as a hairdresser. She wears so much protective equipment. So she was like, my actual hair was getting in the way. So now I cut it off. I can wear these extra masks and goggles and face things. And it’s not it doesn’t like deeply affect me. And I was like, Oh, good for you. I was like, I think you look very cool. Um, I also really liked her her crazy gas mask, but that was just me. I enjoy a flair for the dramatic. I’m like, let’s get guys if you don’t like a mask, put a like, put a you know, costume on, right? Who doesn’t want to borrow? Like, come on? Let’s do it. Like, you don’t wanna be a ninja. Let’s come on.
Let’s move. It’s fun.
That’s the only way I can get my kid to do it. I dress him up like a cowboy. And I put the little bandana in front of his mouth. He doesn’t keep it on very long, but he’s three, presumably that’s okay.
As opposed to
Yeah. But at the same time I I’m like I dress both up as cowboys when we go out so that he he’s like, Okay, cool. That’s what we’re doing. I got it. So, final question for you. Yes. If you were to give advice to people in the world or in your community who are looking to get involved in theater the way that you have, how would you suggest to them they go about it and you know, what things that they need to watch out for to to get there and not worry about what other people are thinking.
advice is a tricky word, but I will definitely share what I wish somebody had shared with me about you know, like you said, navigating through the commute the theater, the non scripted theatre space in Bangalore, at least physical or now online. would be to definitely look up spaces like improv comedy, Bangalore, IIT, stage fright. I think I’m sure I’m missing some other Bangalore based improv. There is many improv groups that are taking improv to another level in Bangalore and over over India, two honorable mentions. One is to not end key bars, improv their scenes are so grounded. And their hard work really shows on courage the person who had said and they are from, I think, good gown, or deli. And the second is kaivalya place, which is in Delhi and they do a lot of applied improv work about improv in mental health spaces. And that’s just beautiful work to witness. So these are places where folks should definitely check out if they want to get into into the cast performing cast, it would definitely patience would help a little especially because everybody’s still figuring out the systems but there are definitely alive jamming communities. For example, we hold almost daily jams, and folks can then express interest in being a regular contributor. There are workshops that happen all the time. Those are good places to take part to. And sometimes I would actually say just shoot a message like shoot a shot, especially now that we are all locked down what’s to really feel and this I’ve been doing a lot even while I was reaching out to some folks for the improv athon, inviting them. I didn’t I might have met them at a common event, but we had no personal connection. I would just leave them Facebook message saying, Hey, I saw you here. I’ve been following your social media work. Would you be interested in being part of icbs birthday bash? And you’re not believe but it’s so interesting not actually you wouldn’t believe. But improv communities. So giving, nobody ever said no, they all enthusiastically agreed to be part of it unless they had another commitment, which was already, you know, sort of pre determined. So I would really say just shoot your shot, and write to whoever you need to. And I’d be happy to receive messages from anybody who would want to get into and share details. And less logistical but important question would important thing to remember would also be, sometimes it feels like you need to be smaller in a space because you’re just starting out. This is definitely something that I used to feel that, you know, if you’re not good enough, or if you haven’t, you, if you haven’t had these many years of practice, you you need to be smaller, somehow you, you need to take a lot of shit. Maybe consciously or unconsciously from others. But I’m more and more starting to believe that that doesn’t matter. It’s more about asking yourself if being at a place and rehearsing and learning from joy. And if it doesn’t give you joy, I guess I guess either, it’s time to bring it up with whoever your person of contact is. Or maybe leaving that space. So that is something I wish I had known when I was starting out. So I’d like to share that.
Hmm, very nice. I like it’s always good to keep your what your expectations are at the right. You know, what are you hoping to accomplish? I mean, and also like your right, when you send an email out to people to say, hey, I’d be interested in being part of your community, maybe also indicate what you’re particularly interested in being part of because maybe exact person who receives it is like, you know what, I would love you to be part of our thing, but it sounds like you’d rather do this thing. Let me connect you with this theater. And they will be able to give you never know. I mean, it sounds like playback, theater and improv are similar, but also the way you describe them. They feel very different certainly in community and vibe, right? In what they’re trying to accomplish for the audience. So potentially finding out what new interested parties are hoping to accomplish. Like it’s like if you’re just looking to have fun and and party and enjoy some comedy. Okay, this is your group. But if you’re trying to like delve into deep topics, well, maybe this other group is better for you. Yeah, not to say that everybody isn’t trying but certain groups are focused on different kinds of things. Yeah. Oh, man. Awesome. Such a good talk. Thank you so much, Lakshmi for being on the podcast with me. I really appreciate it. You have been a delight.
I want to say the same thing you have stolen the words of my of my mind. It was so I actually in between forgot that we were doing this as like a formal podcast in my head. I was just having a conversation with a friend and somebody will deeply listen so it’s been a wonderful time to share a space for listening and responding and thank you so much for inviting me. I think it is. It was my honor and pleasure. Absolutely.
Thanks for listening to yes but why podcast? Check out all our episodes on Yes, but why podcast calm or check out all the content on our network at Universal and HC Universal Network calm