This week on Yes But Why, we talk to actress and podcaster, Ivy Meehan.

Native Texan Ivy Meehan has always found her way to performing on a stage, even when there were no theaters anywhere to be found. Even when she was going to college on a golf scholarship and getting a degree in Entertainment and Sport Promotion, she somehow convinced the business school she was attending to produce a musical every spring.

And yet, most of the stories Ivy tells me in our conversation have to do with fear. Ivy, like all of us, was afraid to do something that wasn’t so stable. But still she found her way to the theater. She got internships at theaters doing marketing and PR. She became a wedding DJ. But what she really wanted to do was act. Maybe in films, maybe onstage but definitely in front of people. Ivy and I talk about how hard it can be to get out of your own way.

Ivy and I talk about wanting to be performers but how fear can really hold you back. Ivy tells me about every job she had that was theater adjacent before she finally bit the bullet and became an actor.

When she moved to Austin, Ivy connected with TurtleDove Films and worked with Elena Weinberg and Duncan Coe on the #ATown web series and then on the feature film, A Room Full of Nothing. Turns out, Ivy’s pretty good at acting. She even very recently won “Best Performance” at the 2020 Fort Myers Beach International Film Festival for her role in A Room Full of Nothing.

Support Ivy Meehan now by watching her in A Room Full of Nothing, available now on Amazon.

You should also check out “Local,” her podcast that features deep conversations with small, local business owners about their origins, journeys, struggles, and triumphs.

 

Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com to join in on the fun.

This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible – get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY. 

This episode of Yes But Why is also sponsored by PodcastCadet.com. Swing on by PodcastCadet.com to get help for all your podcasting needs! Go to PodcastCadet.com and put in offer code YBY20 to get 20% off your first consultation!

 

 

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(production notes: recorded phone call with Rodecaster on 10/29/2020)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Transcript by Otter.ai

HOST  00:00

Hello, Yes But Why listeners, this is your host, Amy Jordan.   Welcome to Yes But Why episode 237 – my conversation with comedian, Ivy Meehan.      But first, a bit about our sponsors.   This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible. You can get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.    Audible is available for your iPhone, Android, or Kindle. Download your free audiobook today at audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.   This episode of Yes But Why is also sponsored by PodcastCadet.com.   Podcast Cadet is dedicated to helping you build your podcast. We will connect you to the resources you’ll need to get better and better with each and every episode.   Swing on by PodcastCadet.com to get help for all your podcasting needs! Let us know you heard about us from Yes But Why and you’ll get 20% off the workshop or service you buy!   This week on Yes But Why, we talk to actress and podcaster, Ivy Meehan.  Ivy and I talk about wanting to be performers but how fear can really hold you back. Ivy tells me about every job she had that was theater adjacent before she finally bit the bullet and became an actor.  Support Ivy now by watching her film, A Room Full of Nothing, available now on Amazon. You can also check out her podcast “Local,” that features conversations with small business owners.   I now present to you (and I swear the name makes more sense after you hear her stories):  yes but why episode 237: Retired DJ Ivy Meehan wows film festivals across the country!   Enjoy!  I’m Amy Jordan. And this

 

01:55

is yes,

 

01:57

but why

 

01:58

podcast.

 

GUEST  02:15

I mean, just hit me with the bang, I it goes back to one of my grandmother’s that lived in the same town that my family lived in. We It was a big family and she every year would have orchestrated and like written and created costumes for a little like Christmas Pageant every year when we our family got together for Christmas. And so you know one year was like reading a Christmas book. And one year it was like reading a biblical story. And one year it was seeing different songs. And it was it was always something different and creative. And was the earliest memory that I have of like performing in front of somebody which I realize is not the question. But I would have to like seriously say that that’s the first time that I remember feeling. This is what this is such a cool feeling to be telling a story. And people are like, I mean, not that I liked that people were watching me, but they were watching the character I was playing even though I was playing like a shepherd and had zero lines. But like that feeling of telling a story. I really remember it back then, which was you know, from the time when I was a toddler through like probably Middle School. I had cousins older and younger than I and they would always you know, they would the older ones would get the bigger parts. But I feel like I felt something then that was about storytelling. And that’s that’s what ultimately I think then that led me to ask my parents to if I could join like, you know, the community theater that did a musical every summer and that was like the big thing that went on in our town during the summer and so you would go to rehearsals for two months and then do the performance. I don’t know who came to those performances though because everybody in the town was in the show and so that that was the earliest though was like I said Christmas pageants in my grandparents like living room.

 

HOST  04:21

I love that your grandmother put all that together. I mean, like that, in my mind is exactly like she was meant to be making theater. And she didn’t so she found her way to make it happen with this Christmas Pageant that she put together. Like the idea of making the costumes and giving you guys roles and being like, okay, now perform it. Like

 

GUEST  04:45

right that’s like what I do for my life say

 

HOST  04:47

no.

 

GUEST  04:49

Right? And now that I’m thinking about it, I don’t even think that she I don’t think she like made the costumes. I mean, she was a lovely woman and probably could have made them but like I think we just like us. costumes from her church. Now that I’m thinking about it, I think that’s actually what happened to layers.

 

HOST  05:05

She sourced the costumes she

 

05:07

gave you for something

 

HOST  05:08

where man does just like she can’t so doesn’t mean she didn’t put that show together, man.

 

GUEST  05:15

Right, exactly. But also like it now that I’m female, like she she was like, the magic of it all, like, showed me what the magic of theater was. And I wouldn’t I don’t think before I would have said that. She was like, very into performance or very into, you know, theater and things like that. But she must have been, I mean, she must have been like a hidden talent. But yeah, she can she was. She did it. Lord this. You did do it. I mean, listen, um, it was award worthy, but like, Oh,

 

HOST  05:45

no, that’s not the point. The point is, like, people have it inherently in them. You know what I mean, to want to do these kinds of things. It comes out in lots of different ways and a lot for lots of different people. Some people call politicians, some people become real estate agents. Some people just really like given speeches. And so they do like Ted Talks and stuff. Everybody performs in lots of different ways. Right? So it’s just like, this is how it came out. And then clearly, you know, your genetic makeup of her you know, was was so theatrical infused? Yeah.

 

GUEST  06:21

That remind my, I have two twin three year three year olds, and they’re obsessed with the greatest showmen right now. Yeah. And there’s a line that one of the characters says that’s like, oh, what’s your act? Because I don’t know if people know it. Uh, but basically, it’s like, asking somebody what their act is, because they’re going to maybe join this circus. And, and the guy’s like, Oh, I don’t have an act. And she’s like, everybody has an act. And it’s like, such a sassy, you know, throw to him. And it’s so true that like, everybody performs every day of their life. I mean, even if you’re a parent, you’re still doing some form of performing in front of your kids daily. And yeah, it just like manifests itself in different in different ways. And that was her way. You’re right.

 

HOST  07:04

Yeah. I mean, most people, I would say that a large portion of people would not consider themselves a performer. But that doesn’t mean that’s not what they’re doing. Any person is a salesperson is a performer.

 

GUEST  07:17

Oh, God and like, and if you’re a good salesperson, like, yeah, you’re, you’re a good performer. That’s hard work.

 

HOST  07:24

Yeah. So tell me more about what you said. You ended up doing plays at the community theater? Did you like continue that through high school? Was there like, a program for you to do stuff in? How did it manifest for you later as you got older?

 

GUEST  07:42

Um, no, I did not. It did not mean it did not carry over, I guess I did that for a few years, with like, my entire family or younger sister and parents, and the whole community. Um, but we only did that for a few years. And then I got really into sports. I mean, it wasn’t a sports before that, but like, then summers turned into, you know, a traveling softball team or a traveling basketball team or whatever. And so my, our summers were just like completely overtaken with sports. So I guess like, it was probably kind of do the math. But like, probably middle school, I stopped doing those and kind of just really threw myself into mainly golf was what I like, threw my time into. And I like being a part of a team because I liked being a part of an ensemble, you know, being on stage. And so I think that’s what I think being a part of sports has also helped me in my acting career, because it’s such a, I mean, doing a movie or putting on a play, as you know, is like such a team driven, you know, activity. So I’ve learned a lot on in the different sports teams that I’ve been on, that have helped me, you know, later in life, but yeah, I kind of stopped performing, I guess, but I also never really feel like I got started. It was like, this is just kind of a family thing that we did. And then I wanted to be in middle school. I here’s the other thing. I always secretly wanted to be an actress, actor, whatever gonna call, but like, I never felt a good enough or be like, it was a serious enough venture not for babies was marination for my parents, like they have always 100% been supportive and like excited about whatever endeavor that that I would, you know, choose to tackle. But I think I just was very and influenced as a kid and was very much like, well, that’s not accessing emotions and things like that, like I felt like actors did even at a young age, was just not like the cool thing to do as a teenager. And so I think I do Think I was like very, you know, like, kind of put those feelings away and didn’t really want to access them because I thought it was kind of, um, I thought it was kind of it was showing weakness or anything like that, like I really bought into the whole, you know, like, as a middle schooler, what you’re supposed to like and what you’re not supposed to like, did I like the Spice Girls? No. But did everybody like Spice Girls? So I like the Spice Girls. Yes. And so now looking back, I’m like, well, that’s kind of sucks that I was that I had that attitude. And it was, you know, it was just like the sense of, you know, wanting companionship, wanting friendship, wanting to be liked. And then there was a certain point where there were certain times in middle school, I remember, for instance, like the school was doing Annie. And I was like, God, I want to be an orphan so badly, but I just didn’t have the like confidence to audition, I was scared and petrified to audition. So I thought, well, I want to be involved somehow. So I asked to be like a stage manager or in tech or something like that. And then at the last minute, somebody dropped out of the play. And so I had to go on and do the role of the dog catcher, which I don’t know if anybody knows, but there is a role for the dog catcher. No lines, it’s literally just like a walk on. Holding like a net. a fishing net is what I believe we used. And so once again, I felt like thrust up on stage. And, and that was the first time I remember, really being like, this is something that I really want to do was take the smallest role, but I like felt, you know, ownership over it. And like, remember being like, here’s my backstory, didn’t know, it’s called a backstory at the time. But like, I was also a male dog catcher. Like, that was outrageous of me to think of as like a 12 year old that, you know, there wouldn’t be women dog catchers, but I like did that whole process with my brain and as as the dog catcher. I mean, I still did tech, the rest of the, you know, rest of the play. I didn’t leave my techies. And then that kind of die state, but I stayed doing sports. I didn’t I didn’t I literally, I think that but I did not get on a stage again until later in high school. Probably like my junior year of high school. So that was seventh grade seventh or eighth grade year. And then and then I didn’t get on again. Because again, I just like, felt like I was going to be made fun of hated auditioning was too scared to like, sing in front of people. Yeah, um,

 

HOST  12:38

I would say those are very valid, like fears. You know what I mean? Like, you’re right. I was a kid in high school. We were very uncool. You know, like, we were not hanging out?

 

GUEST  12:49

I don’t know. But like, looking back, I’m like, No, no, those kids were very cool. Like those kids. I was one of those kids in high school. But like, that’s not I mean, I get it. I understand what I say. But it’s also like, like, Why did it have to be like I was, it was as if I think because I watched the movie can’t hardly wait like way too early in my life. All about, like high school graduation party with like, the sexual undertones, and undertones overtones and like drinking and drugs. And I probably watched that like way too early in life and just thought that those, you know, cliques and cliches of high school like that’s what you know, was supposed to happen. But some of my best friends are from the theater world from like high school theater.

 

HOST  13:35

Use another band. My best friends are in the theater world. It’s okay. You were a jock. It’s fine. It’s fine. Embrace your jock time. Some of us never got it. I didn’t do sports. I didn’t track for three seconds. And the coach was like, please stick with it. And I was like, by,

 

GUEST  13:53

like, three seconds is really fast. Yeah,

 

HOST  13:57

I ran the full six miles in three seconds. I

 

GUEST  14:00

was like, oh, listen

 

HOST  14:01

again. I don’t need any of you guys. Okay. Yeah, right. I was more like, I was like, wait, we’re running and they’re like, the name of this event is running. And I’m like, cool. I’m not into that.

 

GUEST  14:17

Oh, what a boring event running running.

 

HOST  14:21

So what am I gonna do? We’re just gonna run. What do you mean long distances?

 

GUEST  14:25

I don’t get it. I still don’t get it. Well, my husband went to Cornell and ran track and like long distances and then like, why why would you do that? And then I say I went to school. I went to college on a golf scholarship. And he’s like, why would you play this ball full game that makes me so angry like because you ran around in a field for like hours.

 

HOST  14:46

What makes me angry about golf? Just the people that play it, I assume not the actual game. It’s a very regular game.

 

GUEST  14:54

It’s a very frustrating game that like if if you’re additive, which she and I both are It can be a very frustrating game. See? Yeah, yeah, I figured I just lose hardly got. Yeah. Well, but see, I bet you’re competitive in other worlds. Sure, sure. But yeah, like golf isn’t my thing.

 

HOST  15:17

So that’s why I’m like, I don’t I just be like, Hey, guys all right in the cart. Okay.

 

GUEST  15:25

I have a cute outfit. Yeah. Ooh, look at you. You did it for I get it. Okay, again, this is all over. We’re gonna go play around golf.

 

HOST  15:38

I, we went over to Barton Creek Country Club to talk to a friend of ours the other day, and they told us then the golf has not slowed down not one bit during COVID that they were busy the entire time that everybody else went on for a little bit. The Golf guys were hardcore full time.

 

GUEST  15:58

Well, but I mean, it kind of makes Well, I don’t know, Texas. So I guess there’s something political about that. But it also is like, No, no, you can just Oh, yeah, right. You’re outside. You can socially distance. You literally don’t have to come into contact like you. It’s a sport, you shouldn’t come into contact with other people. And you use your own equipment. So yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s that kind of a person. Yeah, thing. You just set yourself up to play golf way sooner than anticipated. Because now know where to go? Yeah. Yeah. It’s totally safe.

 

HOST  16:35

Oh, my God, I’m going with a golf pro. But it’s gonna be crazy. What about what about golf? Did you love like, what’s the, what’s the allure of golf?

 

GUEST  16:47

Here’s this is I think you just kind of became my therapist, because you will hear me out. Because I think I think what I love the most about golf was, nobody else played it. And so it gave me a sense of uniqueness. That I think a lot of theater kids feel like, I hope that I mean, I see that now. Like, oh my gosh, did you watch encore on Disney?

 

17:15

I did not.

 

GUEST  17:17

Okay, it like it’s like a show where like, Kristen Bell goes back and goes back to other high schools. And they bring back all these kids that did you know, Buting, the beast or any any show that you would do in Greece that you would do in high school, and they cast everybody in that basically in the same roles. And they do the do a performance again, like 20 years later. It’s fantastic. Anyway, but it’s that kind of sense of like, a sense of ownership of I am doing something that literally I was the only girl in our high school and middle school that played and it wasn’t like a look at me look at me kind of thing. It was like, this is just my unique thing. That that kind of sets me apart from other people. And I always wanted that to be performing. I wanted that to be my thing. But I never had the confidence to like, like I said auditioning was terrifying. And, and I thought it wasn’t cool. Not that golf is. Now they think about it. But it’s but it was that thing of like, it’s something very different. I just wanted I wanted so badly to be different. But wasn’t will weren’t wasn’t. I wasn’t willing to put myself out there in the theater world like I wish I could. Plus, there’s just a lot of like self deprecation that can come with being a golfer because everything is on you. And so like, there’s no blaming, there’s no teammates that can bail you out. Like it’s if you mess up, it’s all on you. And I’ve always been, you know, it’s like a little self sabotage. I think. I don’t know you’re my therapist. Maybe you can help you figure that out. I feel like

 

HOST  19:01

all the people I’ve ever heard refer to those kinds of things are referring to doing stand up there alone. If they bomb it’s their own problem. They have to deal with it. I don’t know. Maybe you should be a stand up just saying who knows.

 

GUEST  19:15

I don’t take one of your classes before I would love to write stand up but I do enjoy writing. I feel like the performance of it. I would love to do like I would love I would love to have been cast as Mrs. maizel in the marbles but like it’s like performing somebody else’s stand up lights my fire but having to write it myself. Makes me want to hide under my bed.

 

19:42

Sure.

 

HOST  19:44

Yeah, so

 

GUEST  19:45

who knows? So

 

HOST  19:46

that based on this, what you just said makes me want to hide under my bed. Makes me think of your you’ve talked a few times about how it was terrifying the idea of doing this and auditioning but like You got over that hump? How did you get there? What happened? Like, did somebody smack in the face and say, you’ve got

 

GUEST  20:07

to do this,

 

HOST  20:08

like, you know, was Olympia Dukakis available to smack you?

 

GUEST  20:14

Oh my god, I wish I pay money. Um, she wouldn’t accept that’s that’s an interesting question. I, I don’t I don’t think that anybody smacked me physically. And honestly, not even verbally, I, I remember vividly between my junior and senior year of high school. I remember turning to my parents and saying, I think I want to take a theater class. And they’re like, okay, sure, yeah, great. Let’s sign up for theater class. And during school, but because I hadn’t taken any classes up until that like until I was a senior, they couldn’t put me in like theater one on one because that was with freshmen and eighth graders. I was like, 17, almost 18. And, and like, I had done some forms of, you know, theater in my past. And ironically, and ironic twist of fate, the high school theater teacher was the same woman who directed a few of the community productions, like 10 years prior. And so she knew us, you know, meaning my family, I knew her obviously. And it was a little bit of like strings pulled of like, we’ll bring you up into the senior level class. And but you have to do this kind of like this, this amount of work, which was obviously, in theater work is so rigid, like, you know, there’s no books or anything like that. But it was a lot of like reading certain plays, and, and writing summaries and things like that, and writing my opinions about them. But it was like, she was the one that, like, pulled me up into the ranks of the theater department. And I don’t know why, like, I honestly don’t know why I don’t remember if there was an audition. I don’t think there was because I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have gotten over that that quickly. But I think it was just her believing in me enough, at least in my work ethic enough to join this production class. That was all seniors that had all been in productions for four years, multiple productions a year had directed things, I think it was her confidence in bring me up to that level. And, and then and then throughout that year, I did a couple of like variety shows, you had to do a senior project in that class. And so a couple friends that I made in that in that particular department, we did like a variety show. And actually, we talked about parodies before we got on the podcast. But like, we were writing parodies, to Broadway shows and like somehow weaving in an hour long show weaving in like wicked songs and hairspray songs and Phantom of the Opera songs and like making a story out of it. And so it was just that was like one of the projects we had to do for as a senior project. And I think that she given she just gave me the confidence. In my senior year, which was a crazy year, I was like trying to figure out how I was gonna, where I was going to go to college where I could play golf to go get a golf scholarship, moving away from home for the first time, like every all of the anxieties of senior year. But all I remember from that year, Amy was like being with the theater troupe. That’s not true. Like in case my like basketball girls are listening or something like that. I had a wonderful year on golf team, basketball team and softball team. But my greatest memories are like singing in the singing show tunes in the car, or like doing our one x production where I was cast as the lead, which is insane. I was cast as the lead. And then the guy who was cast opposite of me, dropped out within the first week. I don’t know if it was related to me being cast opposite him. But he dropped out to be to change the One X play that we had chosen to do for competition. And I ended up getting a roll that had like three or four lines. Again, there are no small parts. And I just had a blast with this crew. And then we go when we go to performance go to competition, we’re doing performance literally one time, we get one shot at this. And if we advance then we get to do it. Again. We did not advance side note, we kind of knew we weren’t going to advance. We get to the competition, do the performance. It’s my it’s coming up on my cue line to walk out on stage and I like I’m like a witch or something dragging my foot and like carrying a fake baby or so I forget what the role is. But that’s what I remember. Classic. And they they missed my cue, the cast missed my cue. And so my scene got skipped. Oh, I never got I never got to do my performance. I mean it was again it’s only three lines but like that’s all I was there for was to do those three lines and it was like pivotal to the show. What was set in my seats. I never got to do But like looking back, I was devastated. But like looking back it was such a funny anecdotal like thing that we now even now reminisce on. But so that’s a very long answer to answer your question, but it’s like I think theater teacher she Lucas’s What was her name competence? and Sheila Lucas Yeah, I guess I’ve since done other things with her. She’s She’s legit. I mean, she’s, as you are one of those like, you know, I don’t think that it’s teachers or those who can’t do teach I think those who can teach teach and also do because I don’t think that like as an actor, most people can’t just jump in a classroom or jump on a, you know, virtual teaching, I think that’s amazing what you will do, and along with your performances that you are that you that you also do, but she, she’s, you know, it’s like she sag she’s done a bunch of, you know, commercials and films and, and things like that. And so it was, it’s been great to like lean on her throughout the last, what, 15 years, 10 or 15 years. And it does, it all comes back to her letting me into that senior production class. And giving and then casting me we had three shows a year at children’s show a one act and a musical I couldn’t do the musical because it interfered with golf. And the other two, she cast me in lead roles, which is like, absolutely ridiculous and probably should not have happened. But it did. And it gave me the confidence then to you know, kind of keep trying the stage out as I got into college.

 

HOST  26:36

So you went to a school where you got a golf scholarship, probably because they recognized like you did that it made you quite unique. But you got involved with that. But I saw Did you get a degree in theater as well?

 

GUEST  26:52

No, in fact, this the school that I got the scholarship for is a is a business school, like there wasn’t a theater department, there wasn’t a theater auditorium. There was no there was no arts at all of this school, which I probably should have, like looked at before I went but like as a student athlete, I knew my time was going to be you know, sucked away and trying to maintain academics and then also trying to you know, earn my scholarship. But I again, like the self deprecating self sabotaging me was like, I don’t deserve to be here. I am not as good as these other girls. I’m obviously now the small fish in the big pond. And, and so it was like, you know petrifying just like it had been for you know, auditioning during high school and middle school.

 

HOST  27:44

Yeah, sounds like an unusual crowd to hang out with in college, you know, just super focused on golf. Yeah, I don’t know, sort of let that theatrical behind

 

GUEST  27:56

1. And I and I did for about five seconds. But again, it’s almost like I found I found my different groups of friends, my the my freshman year and sophomore year, golf teams, we still get together, like, those are some of my best girlfriends. And, you know, all of our kids, we all had kids at the same time. It’s like almost like a weird cyclical thing that we all we all lived in Texas, I mean, the schools in Dallas, but we’ve all stayed in contact and gotten together every year sense. But I also lived on that none of them lived on campus. I lived on campus, my first two years. And then my second two years, I was I lived on campus again. But I was an RA resident assistant. And so living on campus gave me a little bit more of a like that college, you know, college life feel, meaning? I am I am stuck on campus, and I can’t go anywhere because of golf anyway. So it’s like not not going to parties. So it wasn’t that kind of college life. It was more of like getting involved with different committees and, you know, trying to find friends that way. And I did I mean, it was even though it’s a business school, and there was absolutely zero artistic in any kind of artistic, you know, group on campus. It was there were there were people that there that were musical that were singers that were they didn’t know maybe but they were they were actors and performers and like you talked about, you know that every everyone is a performer in their own way. And it was, I mean, I kind of take pride in that that first fall semester, especially two of my closest friends that also lived on campus. We formed a theater troupe. And so we would start we would do variety shows like we had done in my senior class production, where we would write parodies and we would and then it just became like kind of a variety our show of doing, you know, SNL skits and There were some amazing singers that would sing like big time ballads and top 40 songs and musical numbers. And we would like learn one big dance number. But we, I mean, the the campus was beautiful, but they didn’t have an auditorium or a stage, they had like a small chapel. And it was not a private university, but they had this like, old, old timey chapel that had been donated to the, to the campus. And so we would do our performances there, because it was the closest resemblance of the theater and auditorium. It was like, you know, 10, wooden pews, and then a pulpit and like, we would stand near where the pulpit would be and actually, within a year, because the show’s became so successful, and we ended up getting they hired a an artistic, creative, creative director. And he from that smet spring on, we had a spring musical every year they’ve had, whatever your sense. And so it was, like, we took a lot of pride. And I still do take a lot of pride in like starting something on a campus that had literally zero arts. I mean, the closest thing we had to an art form was like they would bring a hypnotist hypnotist on campus on like, homecoming week. Yeah. And like that was that and I was always the first like, raise my hand and get hypnotized. But we would do, you know, we would do shows every couple of months. And it got me not only I mean, they’ve degrees in entertainment, sport promotion management, that’s a mouthful. But it I use a lot from that degree to market the shows and promote the shows to the you know, nearby high schools. And we ended up doing one of them at a nearby High School at they have a huge Cedar Hill High School has a huge, brilliant, like state of the art auditorium. And we got to perform some high schoolers. And so, you know, it was I think it was it ended up being like a really cool outreach avenue for the school that they didn’t have before that. And we you know, we we never made any kind of money or anything like that for the school, probably. But actually, that’s not true. I feel like the musical as we went along. You know, we did something like we did Godspell. And we were always like, smaller musicals that you could do in a tiny black box theater, which is what we imagined that this that this tiny chapel was, but we did, like Godspell and Charlie Brown, and I love you, you’re perfect. Now change. We almost did a Little Shop of Horrors. But I think it got late, we like couldn’t get the funds together or something anyway, so that really became the time in my life where I was like, Oh, you can just make your own art. Like you like people, people will come people will watch. You know, we had all all walks of life as one does at a at a university. And it was also an international university. So we had kids from like, all different countries around the world that would come to these shows, and be so supportive. And I kind of lost that feeling of like, I need to not it not scratch this itch, the performer itch, I need to scratch that. I felt like I’d been that for so long. And here I didn’t have to because again, when you go to when you go to college, like you can be whoever you want to be. I mean, you can literally be a different person, which I don’t know that’s a good piece of advice or not, but it’s like nobody knew me. Nobody knew me other than the girl with a golf scholarship, maybe but I feel like a lot of people didn’t even really know that. And so I could be that theater arts girl or that, you know, like broad I had like Broadway posters all over my you know, my dorm room and I ended up my my roommate who was in like a girl group pre like in high school, she had been in like a legitimate touring, three likes, like Destiny’s Child style girl group. And she has the most beautiful voice she’s saying at my wedding. And she never knew that she liked acting and performing that kind of music. And she went on then to do other things after the fact because I think she really like found a niche and niche right there with with the like theater, you know, the theater kid that isn’t all of us. You just have to kind of

 

HOST  34:22

scratch that itch. Your variety shows make me think of your grandmother’s Christmas pageants are very similar.

 

GUEST  34:29

They were they were Yeah. I mean, it’s lovely. If you compare them No, I feel like my grandmother’s were probably a little more put together. I don’t want to I don’t want to say that we were ever like intoxicated doing those shows, but like we might have been Yeah, sure. I’m sure there’s a good chance that there’s a good chance that we were Yeah, there’s like no supervision. I mean, it was literally just like no, hey, security officer. We’re gonna put on the show this Friday. Can you unlock the chapel for us and he would and we would go in Oh, I know. I’m gonna say like, after a year of these shows, the school rounded up, they got a creative director. And then they rounded up enough money to buy like legitimate theater lights that were the sides of like theater lights you see in any theater around town, but because it was the tiny, tiny room, they were so hot. And so I’m sure there were multiple, like fires that were about to happen. But, you know, they had no idea.

 

HOST  35:26

So many of

 

GUEST  35:28

us install these like giant lights. But then we really felt like we hit the big time. Yeah, so we had to up our game with you know, costumes and things like that.

 

HOST  35:39

And sunglasses for the audience.

 

GUEST  35:40

Yeah, yeah. Ray. It was like, yeah, it was really bright.

 

HOST  35:50

I know so many theaters that have just like the upgrade, and they just get these bigger theater and bigger, light lighting instruments. And you’re like, that’s, we don’t need that. The No, could have spent the money on something else. Why didn’t you ask us?

 

GUEST  36:05

Why? Like, why don’t we get a curtain that doesn’t have a big hole in it? I don’t know.

 

HOST  36:11

Or like the door creates when people open it, we have to enter into it silently. So that you know from the outside to do an entrance. That’s not good. Right?

 

GUEST  36:21

Right. You know, instead they just asked you with the sun.

 

HOST  36:25

Yeah. Or, or no, ours was like, we had a theater in the round. And the entrances were, you know, blocked from the light, but they would go like, so it was like, there goes by the way, there’s a guy coming in a second. Nobody can sneak up if you you’d have to lay literally block it so that they came out of a different area. Because it was like don’t make him go through the door. You’ll never there’s no element of surprise.

 

GUEST  36:52

You could offend somebody It was like Okay, at this point, start coughing so that it deflects from the noise of the door.

 

HOST  37:00

Can you imagine he mentioned arranging coughing? Oh my god. So tell me about so now you’re you’re a successful actress who’s been in many movies, and I want to know, you know, how did you do that? Like what happened after college? What, like, made you move forward? You mentioned earlier that you lived in New York. I didn’t know you lived in New York. How’d it all? How did that all play? Well, there’s

 

GUEST  37:27

a theme here that again, I wanted to after college moved to New York or LA, but couldn’t for the life of me use the I knew I didn’t think people would take it seriously that I wanted to go and be an actress. Like I didn’t. I just didn’t think that the entertainment world like I thought you need so what anyway, so what i i don’t know what i thought at the time, but as a junior, I did an internship in New York, because again, I’m like, I’m gonna get to New York somehow. Maybe this maybe I need to get there like people will take it seriously. If I’m there for a job. Like an actual, you know, I say actual, like a like a nine to five job or a job that helps me with my degree like my internship.

 

HOST  38:12

Yeah, I have to apologize for the cultures, distaste for our career. We all know it. Anyone is gonna listen to this podcast will know it. We all live in it every day. Usually, when I’m talking to people, I’m trying to pinpoint where that comes from for them. But realistically, it’s pervasive. I mean, it’s, it’s in everything. I was talking to somebody just the other day, and they were like, how do I write a real person resume and I was like, you have a real person. Like, you know, we we put ourselves down as if we don’t exist, because they act like we shouldn’t. But if if COVID has taught us anything, it’s that we couldn’t last a damn day without 14 to 600 artists, keeping us entertained here,

 

GUEST  39:01

like I know, that’s fine. I literally have my resume as primary and secondary. And you’re right, the secondary one is my resume.

 

39:09

Mm hmm. It’s not only

 

GUEST  39:12

made more money that way. Yeah.

 

HOST  39:16

Well, okay, so you, I’m just, I’m just releasing you of the of you having to feel like apologize for this idea that you thought because all of us think it. So it’s

 

GUEST  39:27

okay. I know. But, yeah, so there’s that theme of like, I want to do something but I don’t have the guts to do it. And looking back, I wish I just had the guts to Well, everything happens for a reason, I guess. And, and my path has brought me here and so I’m fine with it. But like, I do wish I’d had more guts to say like, you know what, no, I’m going to get my degree that has nothing to do with entertainment. And I’m going to go to New York and I’m going to figure it out. Like that was that was the movie that was I thought I was writing and it did not play out that way. So I went to New York to do this internship.

 

HOST  40:00

And what kind of company it was.

 

GUEST  40:03

It was, well, here’s the other thing is like, I was like I have to be in the theater. So I’m going to get a theater internship. So I got a theater marketing internship Time Square, with a great company. I mean, I got to see tons of shows. And not because they gave tickets, but because I would like go and sit in, you know, student ticket lines for hours before I would go into work. And then I go see Legally Blonde like 15 times during this internship,

 

HOST  40:29

what year was my masking?

 

GUEST  40:31

This is 2007 2007.

 

HOST  40:35

I believe, I 2007 was when I moved away from New York City. So I just wondered if we were there at the same time. Do you

 

GUEST  40:44

ever think about like how many times you’ve crossed paths with somebody and then later in life, you meet them? Oh, I mean,

 

HOST  40:52

there is a there’s a finite amount of theater people like legitimately shredding, once you start making connections, like in a larger scale. It’s crazy how everyone just knows each other. Like even when you and I met on a roomful of nothing. And I sort of knew Elena and Duncan, I had heard of them for years before I ever saw them in person. I’d heard their names was relation to awesome film for many years beforehand. So it was like, and then and then all of a sudden, I get this gig and they’re like, Hey, you can do you can go and meet these people and do this. I was quick. Okay. Great. You know, yeah, absolutely. We’re always crossing each other’s paths. We’re always right around each other. Right. As far as I’m concerned, every person you pass, you should treat them like next week, they’re going to be the lead in the next NBC. Like, movie, you know what I mean? Like, where it’s like, or it’s like, every anyone you know, is so many plus, I’ve worked in theater since ever, like, like, I got a theater degree. I’ve been doing theater forever. There are people who I worked with along the way who are currently famous. You know what I mean? where it’s like, Yeah, I did a play. Nobody knew who she was then. But now she’s famous. Right? And it’s like crazy, crazy. like to tell stories where you’re like, so then I’m talking to so and so. And they’re like, really? And I was like, this was way years ago, right? I try never to tell namedrop stories, but I can’t help but I got like six I gotta go for him. Right?

 

GUEST  42:28

Well, and you worked with him. So it’s like that’s the that’s that’s his life? Yeah,

 

HOST  42:32

I think I saw them in an elevator. It was like No, for six months. We worked on a play together. We spent time together. Right? At one point she knew my name. Like I don’t think if we saw each other again. She’d be like, Amy Oh my God, I’ve missed you. But like, Yeah,

 

GUEST  42:47

she might she might whoever she is. I was thinking to like I think about sometimes when they’re I see a fly. And I’m like, Kev we met before like been on the same. The same fly.

 

HOST  43:01

You’re going down the line? Crazy. existential rabbit hole. Sure. That’s insane. Wait, no, don’t try to change the subject. I want to know more about you went to New York City, you got a theatre marketing internship. Did you feel like you were a part of the theater scene? Did it further invigorate your need to become a theater? Full Timer?

 

GUEST  43:22

Hell no. Well, to answer your first question, did I feel like a part of the theater scene? No, in hindsight, I 100% was, I mean, I don’t know if your listeners know many like Broadway names, we’re just talking about name dropping, but like basically, if you look at the Broadway and Off Broadway like list of shows that was taking that was going on during 2007 2008 whoever those leads were, I was like, driving them around Manhattan to like different Barnes and Nobles to do different like, you know, set up signing for like playbills or getting them to sing a song like I was like their handler so in that sense, yes, I had amazing conversations with these like legitimate still awesome super famous in the Broadway world actors. And I was I was like just a sponge trying to take that all in. But that was still it was like you know there’s a point of like there’s a there’s a there’s a part of an actor like you want to make enough money to get to the next gig you want to you don’t want us to be famous to be famous and famous so that you can you can work continue to work and it was like still in that phase it was less about the storytelling is what I where I’ve eventually become, but yeah, I felt and that sense. Yes, I was definitely in the Broadway specifically theater world but I was not in any shape or form. Like ready to take the plunge to then go out there and like, figure it out myself. I mean, I went to everyone asked, like while I was there, I don’t even know how long my internship was less than a years. It was like, I went to one audition the entire time that I was there. And you know what happened, it was an open call, first of all, which is like, whatever. In New York, there’s a dime a dozen of them every Saturday. It was an open call at the W Hotel in Times Square. And I stood in line, I had my notebook with a song that I had never seen on a piano with a piano before. And I got so nervous and anxious, I pretend to get a phone call on my phone. And I walked out of line and I never looked back. I never so the whole time I was in New York, I never went to an audition fully. I mean, I stood in line for one, and then I walked out. So I wasn’t like immersing myself trying to, you know, get an agent or trying to, like, see what that world was about. I was just going to the theater a lot. I mean, I would go to the theater, like three or four times a week, and pay $20 a ticket, which I didn’t have. I mean, I was still college student. But like, that’s where I spent my stipend was was from the internship was going to see theater. And so that just made me that made me want to perform. I don’t know, that made me want to go to New York, I was pretty miserable the whole time I was there, mainly because I was like 19 years old, years old, maybe 20. So I couldn’t go out. I knew one person there who was actually in like an off Broadway show, and was a vocal coach. I did take some vocal lessons from him. But like, I knew nobody else. And so it wasn’t a great experience looking back. I mean, it was a great experience in the moment. But looking back, there was so much to learn. And so much that I did I did learn during that time. New York is my hair blonde, so Oh my gosh, it’s well, I, I it’s a longer story, but like I lived in Spanish Harlem, and I wanted to dye my hair blonde forever. And I want this is a I like walked into a place. I spoke minimal Spanish, and points. So I pointed to a again, I’m living in Spanish Harlem, and there’s like, I pointed to a swatch a blonde. I was like, I want to be this. This is the color hair I want. I think that the hairdresser put that number on my brown hair, dark brown hair. And so when I left I had bright orange hair like she did not they did not we there was something lost in translation to bleach your first year to be blonde. No, no, yeah, I think we just got that. So I came back to Texas and to like finish out my last two years. And, and was like so enthralled and just being on any stage possible, which again was like our pulpit, at the chapel. And that, but I will say, I thought maybe theater and especially musical theater is not for me, because it’s so cutthroat and it’s so I had taken No, I taken piano when I was in elementary school. Like other than that I didn’t know how to sing. I didn’t know, you know, people that are people that are really in musical theater have trained for years. At least that’s the story. I’m telling myself at the time IV

 

HOST  48:22

killing me, can I?

 

GUEST  48:24

Well, that was a moment, though, that it made me switch to like, you know what, maybe it’s not New York, maybe it’s LA and TV and film. And so I ended up meeting, I think my English teacher, one of my last two years of college got me and she has a friend, she was on the board of some, you know, the Board of some Theatre in downtown Dallas. And on that same board was also an acting coach at for TV film acting. And I met her so so this English teacher introduced me to her because she knew I was an actress on on our campus. And so I started taking some like on camera workshops. And that was my first step into, you know, not having like a cartoon face. So that took that took a good two years before I got into school, but like, I was going to those probably paying more than I should have for these like workshops, where they would bring he would bring down like Jason Alexander or Jason wood was like a casting director from LA like bring down these different big name people who I thought I needed to learn from, at least to like learn, you know, TV film acting and what the difference was and, and and we did a lot of like, you know, auditioning skills and things like that. I was also part of an improv troupe that that Well, technically it was a DJ company. So are you a DJ friends, I was I’m retired but I would do like cars and like Did like two weddings and try both of them. And so I never did another one again, because it’s the biggest day of a woman’s life. And there’s no reason that 18 year old IV should have ever been in charge of leading that day. And, but the best ones were like Christmas parties, or, you know, Fourth of July barbecues, like, that’s, that’s when I learned more about production and like, you know, setting up sound equipment and thing like things like that and actually performing as myself or performing in a different way that’s not on stage, really, and not, you know, TV and film. But that DJ company also had, like a corporate, a corporate gaming kind of team building department. So we did a little bit of that. And then we also had this improv troupe that we would get hired, you know, to do different shows at different corporate events, and, and community events. And then we had like a murder mystery is all the same, like four or five of us, by the way, I make it sound like there’s different departments and like, everybody has their their role, like, it was the same four or five people DJing improving, doing murder mystery, and doing team building all in one weekend. So that’s where that was, like my, that was my job. During my second two years. My last two years of college was a way to perform every weekend, in some in some form. And then also to make money to get to take, you know, some some some film classes. Man, it’s very, super intense

 

HOST  51:28

that you spent all that time at the end of your college career working for this event company. I mean, it really feels like you’re just dying to do this. And every chance you could you’re, you’re doing it so. So listen, man, we’re we’ve been talking for a while. There’s a lot of you talk about how you don’t do it. But I have seen your IMDB page, and you have done quite a few things. So tell me what happened. What broke it? What happened? What was the first thing? What was the audition that you made it to? What was the like, first show that you got into? How did we get to where we are right now?

 

GUEST  52:08

Well, I don’t know. None of that stuff like fun. It’s like not fun to think about. I mean,

 

52:14

I would say pains better to think about Yeah,

 

GUEST  52:18

exactly. That’s why we’re accurate. Or, you know, we’re entertainers. I mean, here’s what I would say is that I two years out of school, I was working at a theater, Dallas summer musicals as like in their PR department, and I was miserable. And I wasn’t performing and I was hardly taking any more classes. And I broke up. Well, my boyfriend at the time broke up with me and I needed I’ve like literally probably, in hindsight, like needed to just get away from the area. Not like physically, you know, I just like needed, I needed a new, it was time to move away from Dallas. And so then then I’m thinking, do I literally go to LA do I literally go to New York? Well, my family’s down here close to Austin and ourself. And one day, I was driving through Austin from my home. And again, where my parents are from Seguin, back up to my home in Dallas, like after Christmas or something. And I’m driving through Austin, and I thought, this is where I’m going to move here. And literally, within six months, I had moved to Austin. And my thinking at the time was I’m going to move here, I’m going to move to Austin. There’s a great independent film scene here. That was what I told people. I’m moving to Austin to jump into the independent film scene. There’s a lot of commercial work in Dallas. But from my minimal experience, like I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about, but that’s what I thought is like, independent film, Austin, improv Boston. And, and I’ll be closer to my family. So that’s great. And, and so I within six months, I found a girl that I had done a couple shows with she and I moved, she wanted to be an actress, too. She and I moved, you know, down to LA down to Austin, and within six months, and it was like you just had to make the decision to do it. And then we didn’t know what I’m even thinking was like more like three or four months we moved. And, and within I would say a year I thought I had to get a restaurant job. Like I just thought that’s what you have to do to be an actress. Sure. So

 

HOST  54:28

provided by culture.

 

GUEST  54:30

Totally. I mean, in the time that I was a waitress, I had I think zero auditions, but what Austin brought me Was it within a year I got an agent. And the only reason and I can say this because this is what the agent told me was the only reason I got her was because she laughed out loud reading my cover letter. And she said everybody just writes these plain boring cover letters trying to be professional and your cover letter, you know, grab me For whatever reason, I wish I could go back in time and like or find it on my, you know, previous computer and master that art again, because I do think there’s something to that, but that’s how I never got jobs out of college because I was writing like goofy personal or personality driven cover letters and of course it would get me an agent. And at the at the time, she, she signed me I was also because of Austin, the RTF department at UT was having a bunch of like, you know, I mean, like, as they do every year, like their RTF department has auditions seems like every day not now. But I would go on boards and just try to find student film auditions. And I probably went to 20 or 30 student film auditions on the UT campus not have I literally didn’t, I got signed with an agent not having anything except for theater on my resume. And so I knew I needed to get some, at least some kind of credits, even if we’re student films. And in the meantime, I needed to get better at auditioning. And so being in Austin gave me the opportunity to have this great. Yes, theater, but also TV and film department that I could kind of work on the craft a little bit. And so I would do student films. And I’m you know, I never want to see them because I’m sure they’re god awful, not because of them or any, you know, just everyone’s learning on those sets. So it showed me you know, what it’s like to work with younger people, older people, different experience levels, what it means to be the different, you know, a grip and a gaffer and the DP and all these different things that I had no clue about, coming from the theater world. And I think those were the couple of years that I like grew the most. Because I I wasn’t folk I was focused on just learning things not on really becoming a better actor. And I got a couple like commercials with the with that agent. And and then after a few years I well actually one of the student films we did I did with Elena. And she she and I were both cast in this probably awful student film. And we just bonded on set. We were only on the onset. Once together. I think one day, we found that we were spurs fans, we found that we both had family that lived in Seguin, Texas and so we kind of stayed in contact through Facebook thank God as for Facebook back then. And she we kind of stayed in contact over the next few years. And that’s when she did I fell off the radar probably with with film in general, definitely with theater. Because it wasn’t going in I was like getting rejected from auditions with my with my agent. I wasn’t I was so tired. Doing student films that you know, it’s like you’re on set for literally 16 or 18 hours a day. And it’s like totally illegal probably. But, you know, I was kind of past that point and needing something different and exciting. And she reached out to me a few years later and was writing this web series with her with her friend Mallory. And they had kind of written apart that they wanted me to read, you know, the whole 10 part series for and and then I just immediately like sign on the dotted line. I was like, Yes, I want to do this. It was just it was a web a 10 part web series that we’re we’re going to do maybe a couple seasons. And I think that’s really what kind of pushed things back into the world. For me, I’d really shut things out and was not in a good place. As far as the performer. goes, I just had shut down. And so she and her family really brought me out of that. And we had such a great time. That was the series ended up being called a town. It we shot two seasons that they brought me into the writers room and I kind of found this little family film family here in Austin and I’ve done so many other projects with different people on that from that from that particular project. So it really became about again, going back to like, oh, there’s no theatre department at our college. Great. We’ll create our own Oh, there’s no work for, you know, 20 something females in Austin. Great. We’ll write our own web series. And that kind of attitude. I think not. It’s not I don’t mean it to sound like we’re better than the auditions that there just wasn’t we weren’t going out for auditions. And they had this No, you have to sell

 

HOST  59:30

you have to do your own thing. It’s implausible. Yeah, I’ve talked to 1000 people and they’re, it’s like, you cannot wait for someone to come to you. It’s like dating. No one’s coming to you.

 

59:41

Yeah,

 

HOST  59:41

you got to go out and get it. And you know what, you got to kiss a bunch of frogs before you get that Prince. You know what I mean? You got to go to a bunch of terrible auditions and learn 1000 things before you get a show that really makes you feel good. So yeah, it makes a total you

 

GUEST  59:56

go back to kissing all those frogs to like, it’s not like it just Like, you can get the prince and then you go back to kissing frogs forever. So well that’s true.

 

HOST  1:00:05

Yeah, I mean, get into kissing frogs. It’s pretty Alright.

 

GUEST  1:00:09

Well, that’s true. I mean, again, it’s like right now you know what my favorite I mean, other than obviously, like getting to be on set with friends and, and telling a really unique story or diving into characters, obviously, like one of the most fun things, but one of now I think one of my most, like, the fun thing that I get to do is audition. Like, I love auditioning. Now, I’m terrible at it still, probably, but just based off of, you know, ratios, but it’s like, I really love the idea. And it’s so cliche, but it’s the idea of like, you get to embody this character for 10 minutes, and do what you would do with this character. And don’t do what you think they want you to do, or maybe incorporate a little bit of what you think they want you to do. But you get to do this carefree character for 10 minutes, you may never get to be with this character again. So if you’re gonna take a few hours out of your week to prepare for an audition, at least go into the audition. But now it’s all virtual. So like, you know, when you’re self tape or whatever you’re doing it Have fun with it, because that’s the only 10 minutes that you can get with it. For the most part. I mean, obviously, you know, yeah, you get you get to kiss the prince once in a while. But for the most part, a lot of those frogs you got to make the most of it.

 

HOST  1:01:23

Yeah, plus, you know, if we’re gonna maintain this metaphor, realistically, like, you know, the frogs are a good time Have a nice time. Don’t hate them for just being frogs. And you know, sometimes the princes or princesses, but they’re not that princely. You know what I mean? I’ve had plenty of gigs, where I’m like, this is excellent. And very lucrative. But it was not fun. Or it was dumb, right? where you’re like, who’s buying this product? You know, or whatever. Now, you know, that kind of thing. But you’re like, I don’t care. paycheck clears doesn’t matter. Right. Like, you know, so but you still get to do the things that you want to do. It’s just sometimes it’s weird. Yeah. Right. So sometimes the princes are the frogs. And they’re still Princess, but they’re also still frogs.

 

GUEST  1:02:07

Whoa, I just really got in touch with this. We got a metaphor down a lily pad.

 

HOST  1:02:14

aerobill metaphor, row home. What’s happening right now? Hopefully, they’ve stuck with us. We’re sticking with it. We’re doing it seems like you’re very positive about it. Now. You’ve been deeply empowered. You found your squad here in Austin, and now you’re in Atlanta, a lot of stuff. Yeah, they did move to LA there’s that you’re not alone. You know, you still get your family. Here’s some people around, you know,

 

GUEST  1:02:37

right. A lot of the the core group from that, from that series that I mean, that’s the same core group that did a roomful of nothing, which is the reason why you and I met. So you didn’t know it’s Yeah, it’s all it’s all cyclical. And yeah, you got it, you got to kind of find your tribe, and that you feel comfortable enough being silly with and I mean, I did want to say it kind of feels like there’s at some point, it’s happened a couple times in my life, and one was getting the guts to say I want to do theater arts, my senior year, when nobody, I had never even brought Theatre Arts before. That was like a gutsy moment for me. And I probably didn’t sleep for two nights before I told my parents and told my, you know, counselor that and then there’s other times in life that it’s like, I like going to the audition in New York, I did get the guts to go there and you know, curl my hair or whatever. And so, I try to like lean into those moments and say like, but you have been confident at times and you have wanted to play golf because it made you feel different. And it made you stick out a little bit without being obnoxious, hopefully and, and so leaning into those moments now. And as you know, as you get older, just everything becomes perspective. It’s like, if we’re gonna, you know, we have this amount of time on on in life on this earth. Why not? Try to do the things that make you feel fulfilled and make you happy? I mean, I know we can’t I you know, personally like having kids having a family. I can’t just up and move to New York right now. I can’t just up and move to LA. I, but I’ll still audition for anything that’s filming in LA or filming in New York, I’ll still, you know, try to get those jobs. You know what, though,

 

HOST  1:04:21

we talked about this idea of COVID. And I feel like New York and LA are just not going to be the thing anymore. Like, I just don’t think it’s not like, like number one, New York is like a war zone of insanity don’t go there. And LA is on fire. So it’s like, we need to find somewhere in the middle, maybe near some water to do this. Like I know, you’re like New York and LA both near water, but it’s like, you know, but at the same time, it’s like if it’s not on fire and it’s not like a war zone, maybe that’s the spot and even if it’s like Omaha, Nebraska or like, you know, St. Louis, Missouri Hey, man, wherever it

 

1:05:01

is in it

 

HOST  1:05:03

for a while it

 

1:05:03

was New Mexico, right?

 

HOST  1:05:04

Yeah, that was starting to become the thing. Oh, and then Atlanta. Por Atlanta. I don’t think Atlanta is coming back. Unfortunately, I heard I heard that really, really, that COVID really rocked that pretty hard.

 

GUEST  1:05:16

Really. But don’t you think it’s kind of everywhere now? I mean, like, it can be everywhere. I think, I mean, obviously, things are gonna have to change, like with protocols and, and restrictions and things like that went with code related. But after all of this, if anything, it showed us how it’s helped me become a better self tape auditioner Hmm, or better self tape interview, like if I had a job interview. So you know, like, you’re right. It’s like, it’s not all about LA, in New York, it’s, but at the time, as I’m growing up, and I’m thinking, this is where you have to go to do these things. Oh, yeah. You know, that’s just that’s like, I think we get stuck in those, like fairy tales a little bit. And, and again, like we talked about before this podcast, even, that there’s so many different paths to get to it, whatever it is, you know. And, like, for instance, how did I start off as a little, you know, like, flowerpot, Munchkin kid, or whatever, and Wizard of Oz growing up as a 10 year old, then lead me to a DJ in college, then lead me to an intern internship in New York, then lead me to an A movie that’s like, you can go and buy if you would like to on like iTunes, and Amazon, and you know, all these, like, there’s that. And then also, I do a, like radio broadcasting for high school football teams. And so it’s like, like, and it’s all those performance aspects on those give me great joy. And so the path to get to wherever it is, it’s just First of all, not straight, it’s not even crooked. It goes winding backwards, and you know, and loop de loops. But there’s just so many aspects of being a performer. And that have then led me to doing ultimately what I want to do, which is being a storyteller. And so that’s, that’s, I think, that’s like the takeaway, when I’m retro, retro, actively looking back. You’ve done this for me, you again, the therapist, Amy, the therapist,

 

HOST  1:07:28

well, you know, the benefit of doing an interview like this, and I find it with pretty much all of my guests is that people rarely reflect on the breadth of their career, unless somebody asks them to, yes, so I just try to lead everybody down a path to consider the touchstones on their own path. And then they often notice patterns, or because you’re good at moments, where it’s like, I’ve known that I wanted to do this since I was a child, like, I didn’t even know I wanted to know it until just now, you know, these kinds of things. Yeah. But unless you’re legitimately paying attention to your own pathway, one thing I like to say to people a lot of times, you know, as general advice is, if you don’t know what you’re doing, as an adult, reflect on what you wanted to do as a kid. And I don’t mean like being a fireman. I mean, be a fireman. If you want to be a fireman, they probably need your help. But at the same time, like things like, what did you really do? What was your thing? What were you involved in? What did you like? What did everyone if you asked your family? Like, what would they say that you did write like little stories? What stories do they tell about you? What’s the character of the personality that you were as a child because that is you in essence, that’s you in the beginning stages, and then when you get older, all the rest of real life packs down on top of it. Starting with, like you said, middle school. And the point when someone says, I don’t know if you’ve heard of what cool and not cool is, but you’re not cool? And you’re like, wait,

 

GUEST  1:09:07

I didn’t even know. Like, yeah, just like, like the bitchy middle score that like, you know, throw a slushie at me or something. Yeah, it sounded just like her write her voices in my head,

 

HOST  1:09:19

not because I was her but because I heard her. I switched to private school in high school because of that. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, you have to just let it do the journey that you’re meant to do and if you don’t know what you’re meant to do, try to see what you’ve been doing. Right. So that’s how right that’s how I do it. I don’t I don’t consider myself a therapist. Clearly not I have zero doctor credentials of any kind. I definitely have a theater degree. But, but part of my like interviewing style over the years that I’ve developed is really just about like learning Looking at what you’ve done, and in my mind, I hope to lead every one of my guests to examine whatever they do next. And hopefully our conversation leads them to be inspired to do whatever it is that they’re meant to do next, because I’ve sort of helped them see what they really want. At the end of the day, it’s just saying, like, here’s a mirror, do you see it?

 

GUEST  1:10:27

Right? Just take a look, open your eyes, even one eye? Yeah, there’s just in your, in your schpeel. It made me think of, I mean, I’m obsessed and always have been with Carol Burnett. And she, she, I mean, she’s got a lot of one liners, but there’s one that’s more of a cliche, that’s just always, I’ve kind of just, it’s always poked up in my life. And it’s something like when you have a dream, you’ve got to just grab it and never let go. And that is, to me what you’re saying is that, like, you know, When, when, when you when you look back in time, did you ever did you ever let go, which we’ve talked about already tonight, like, there were times that I had to let something go, I had to let this this dream of being a performer go. And the other times that it’s just like, jumped right into my lap. So that came to mind, I think always comes to mind, which is like a thing that is, well, the quote is never let the fear of striking out get in your way. And that was always something I feel like my dad must have told me growing up. And because like any kind of sports con or quote, just like hit me in the right spot. And that, and it was that I needed, I needed to hear that. I think about it, every time I audition, I remember thinking about it every time I audition, even when I was petrified to audition. Because if you if you let that fear overtake you, like it did it for me in New York, then you’re never even going to get up to that. So it’s like, if you live by that fear, what are what you’re never gonna, you’re never going to get the chance to do what you really were intended to do. Or you’re never even going to go down that path to get to the point of whatever it is. Because you let the fear dictate it, which I did for a long time. I mean, still do probably on some levels.

 

HOST  1:12:15

Yeah, it’s hard. I think the problem is that, we think there’s going to be a moment where the fear goes away, where we think that at some point in our lives, we’re gonna be like, you know what, I’m good. I get it. You know, but I don’t think that that’s actually how it works. I mean, I, I just feel like you have to ride the ebbs and the flows, you know, sometimes you’re in it. And sometimes you’re not, we’ve all had times where it’s like, like, I’ve spent a long time not doing any performance, right? Because I’m home with the baby, you know, I am doing I consider this my performance, but it’s, you know, it’s as real as anything is it’s not like I’m truly performing. And, and, you know, also teaching is a kind of performance. But that’s just sort of how like we were talking about, you know, everyone uses it in a different way. That’s how I perform now. Like I perform as a teacher, right? Because I have to get them into it. Especially the younger age groups. Man, I don’t want to lie. every age group, adult children, they need to be convinced to do stuff. So I’m always

 

GUEST  1:13:28

like, what’s up? It’s gonna be great. Who’s it’s

 

HOST  1:13:33

any age group, whether you’re eight, or you’re at? I’m in front of you going like what we’re gonna do?

 

GUEST  1:13:39

I don’t see what your hands are doing right now. I mean, even I can, I can actually feel your hands with that voice. Yeah. Oh, my God, you really? Can I ask you a question about that? Sure. Because so I think that this interviewing in itself is a performance. Yeah. You said it’s like the most realist of that. Like, I feel like there’s kind of two sections of performance. And one is where we’re more performing like ourselves, like in an interview or in the classroom, maybe. And then there’s another, that’s like, what I view the most like cartoonists stick, which is not that’s not that’s not really fair, but like being on stage or being in a costume or, you know, personifying a different person. Like, do you have a preference, or do you see them into Do you see performance in different categories?

 

HOST  1:14:33

I don’t see them in categories such that one’s like better than the other necessarily, but I just think that there’s different ways to tell stories. And I think that honestly, interviewing is, is multiple skills, right? So interviewing involves, I mean, yes, I have to perform. My husband’s constantly reminding me that people aren’t necessarily listening to this episode that listening to the podcast for The guests, they’re listening to it for me. And every time I’m like, What? No, come on,

 

GUEST  1:15:06

100% of listeners are listening to you for this. Nobody is here for me. And that’s totally fine. I’m here for that,

 

HOST  1:15:12

right. But like, the idea of that is insane to me, but I get it. Because I’m just, I’m essentially putting out the same vibe all the time, right, my vibe is consistent. But it’s because I go into every interview with the same sort of supportive idea. Some people I know, like, you and I know each other from the world, we’ve met each other in person and spent time a lot of people that I talk to are strangers who I might never ever meet. Right. So I have to get deep into their stories without them knowing me. And so I have to get them to trust me. And I do different things to do that. So like with you, I have held myself back from telling too many of my own stories, but only just because we know each other. And so I can tell you the swells anytime. And probably because

 

GUEST  1:16:05

I talk way too much.

 

HOST  1:16:06

Now. It’s an interview about you. It’s about you know, I’m trying to get you to tell me things, right. The only reason why I ever tell a story is to tell get someone to tell me one back. Right? Like, that’s the purpose. But that’s the trick of the trade of like, my whole life, right? I also like, you have to be able to recognize your own personal strengths, like things that you can do that it turns out is unusual. And you’re probably the only person that can do it. Right? We all have one or two of these skills. Maybe you know what it is maybe you don’t but you are I don’t know you do have a thing that you are good at that like helps keep you going right? And one of mine something that is totally buoyed my entire life is that people always think I, I always visually remind them of someone they know. Everyone all the time. Always right. Even my voice. My voice sounds like someone you’ve you’ve met, it has a general nasals Midwestern feel. I’m from Boston. I know I sound Midwestern, but it’s what it is. Right? They’ve been telling me it since I was a child. Okay. But people aren’t. So people are comfortable with me. peep strangers off the street. They, I’m their aunt Lucy. So they talk to me. People meet me and they’re Let every audition I’ve ever been in. They go. Hey, you know, you remind me, you know,

 

1:17:43

were you in that

 

HOST  1:17:44

dog food commercial? And I’m like, No, it wasn’t me. But I’m here right now and you love me? Or like, how have we? How you seem so familiar. How would I know? You? I was like, when you were imagining who to do who to get in this role? It was me. Yeah, I always do that. I always do that. And I know that that’s cheesy. Why not? Who cares? But then they’re, hey, I, I make them feel funny. And it’s a funnier way than going No, we haven’t met.

 

GUEST  1:18:14

Right. Right. And also, okay, memorable experience. Right away to you for you to stick out. Yeah. Right. Because you’ve because you’ve you’ve you’ve found a way to tap into that uniqueness. And that, you know, I don’t know there’s a word we’ve got to come it’s like a gym or something. That’s, that’s unique to you. You figured out a way to tap into it to catapult you into the into whatever it is that you’re doing into the conversation into the interview into the audition.

 

HOST  1:18:45

Realistically, it helps me with everything. I’m at the grocery store. I’m at the bank. People just they smile at me in a way that is not like a stranger smile, always. So so I just I used to be like, weirded out by it. But now but now I’m embracing it especially after I turned 40 I was like whatever let’s go

 

GUEST  1:19:07

when when did you figure that out? Like is now you know, I’m gonna like be up all night trying to figure out what mine is.

 

HOST  1:19:14

You have to be up all night. I have twins that are going to wake up very early. You need to go to sleep. Think about it for days afterwards in the middle of the day

 

GUEST  1:19:24

when your brain is wired, but I’m like I want your I want your thing to be the that you can tell me what my thing is. Cuz I feel like then I start to go to introspectively I’m like no, you just you know what my thing is? My thing is that I don’t I’m okay. Like I’m okay with with being with looking kind of goofy and silly. That’s not a thing is it? I don’t know it could be now realistically I

 

HOST  1:19:48

don’t know you well enough to answer this question like we have met in person but I don’t know you all know I would ask your husband. Like, like having a conversation with your husband because he’s pretty I believe a person or if not your husband, which I understand maybe he’s not the person that knows you best, finds the person who does and say like, Hey, what do you think if I had a superpower, like really legitimately right now, of the things that I can do, what would it be? And they’ll have something. They’ll know something

 

GUEST  1:20:17

I could I could bring him in here. He could probably answer it on the spot.

 

HOST  1:20:20

No, no, no, we’re not going to involve him in the interview. What we’re going to do now though, is we’re going to say Adios, because we have talked for a long time, and you’re lovely. And you’ve given such good advice overall, usually asked about advice, but there’s been like, so much advice all the way through. And I feel like yeah, being a DJ, you know, Patton, Oswald was a DJ, his Twitter profile says retired DJ on it. So when you said retire, DJ, man, we laugh. You guys are like the same? Basically, twins. Yeah, pretty much. It’s exactly the same your careers. But But, you know, I feel like you’ve you’ve put yourself out there in and told me these stories and been so honest about the hard times and holding yourself back and the fact that you didn’t think that you could do it. And I just wanted to remind you that you did that, even though a lot of the stories in fact, when I tried to get a positive story out of you, you’re like, Man, it’s way more fun for me to tell you how I was scared. And I’m like, that’s cool. But really, what I need is for you to realize that you don’t need to be scared anymore, because you did it. And you can continue to do it. And also, even currently, in the post, COVID film world, whatever that might mean, you know, the skills that you developed previous might be exactly what is required for, you know, the next few years of film, you’re talking about how you know, where you live might not be a thing. I think that’s totally right. I mean, why not do self tape across the country? And then just get somebody to come do your film? If you’ve got money to make a film? Who cares where you are, right? Find whoever’s cool, that wants to be in it. If somebody like my friend lives in, you know, St. Louis, can she audition greats ended in? Yeah, right. Yeah. And then she’s amazing. And you don’t know, there’s diamonds in the rough all over the place. And not a lot of people have the support of their friends and their family. Nor do they have a major city that has a film scene available for them to go to. So I’m hoping that the world sort of opens up and we can be making stuff all over the place.

 

GUEST  1:22:42

Hundred percent. I mean, it’s like the whole like, Justin Bieber was like on YouTube, like doing the drums, turn like ushers, I sure saw him on YouTube. And this is, you know, 20 years ago, or 15 years ago, I guess. But it’s like that. Maybe that’s, you know, we had the internet boom, we had like social media boom, which we’re still in. Maybe you’re right, that there is this like, post COVID boom of in the entertainment industry of incorporating different styles and mediums. And, you know, personnel. Yeah,

 

HOST  1:23:13

you know what else? You know what else, if I were a homie, if I were a TV executive, or a film producer right now, or even a Broadway producer, because they’re looking for stuff to do, I would be scouring things like Tick Tock and YouTube for the best made at home things. Because what you’re looking for always is somebody who can do it without you. So it’s like, so it’s like, there’s so much because everyone had so much time for a while. I feel like there’s less time now. But for a while, we were all at home. And so everybody was like really churning The churners were churning. A lot of us were sitting under blankets going, like, when will it end? And that’s fine. And that’s all right. I was I was there. But both of us also had toddlers with us. So it makes it a little cuter underneath the blankets, fan. I’m just saying like, if you were to look out and see who’s making stuff, and who’s like actually creating things and putting stuff out and maybe even having high quality and results. I mean, that’s right, get the next movie. I mean, if if there’s so many there’s, there’s in the next like season of movies coming out, movies haven’t been made. There’s the handful of movies. And there’s more than a handful of course, but like movies that are have been in production, where the guys who are and girls who have been editing it, or just working from home instead of working in the studios, wherever sure those will come out. But there will be a moment where it’s like, well, we didn’t make anything for six months so so that when they go to film festivals, because that’s done, right? They go there, that’s the new movies because that stuff, you know needs to be promoted and has already been made and is good. So why not read? get

 

1:25:05

her done? Right.

 

HOST  1:25:06

Right. All the winners of every festival for the past three years great. They’re the new HBO lineup. Right?

 

GUEST  1:25:11

Exactly. Like I think you’re right.

 

HOST  1:25:14

You know, why not? It’s out there. And if you look for it, and one assumes that they will begin looking for it. I mean, all of us were in

 

GUEST  1:25:23

they have to

 

HOST  1:25:24

all of us were in quarantine together. Agents and and executives this Yeah, TV executives the same. They were also online, watching stuff, just the same as everyone, you know. So yeah, I don’t know, I think the user is bright and open and possibilities are there. And I’m looking forward to all the fun projects that you are going to work on. And, you know, maybe maybe I’ll convince you to let me work on stuff. Who knows we’re gonna have a good time.

 

GUEST  1:25:51

Convince me you don’t I don’t need any convincing. Let’s just do it. Whatever it is, I don’t even know what is it? I know it is.

 

HOST  1:25:59

Yeah. Well, first, we got to figure out what your special ability is. That’s what it’ll be. I know. It’ll be a documentary of us trying to find it.

 

GUEST  1:26:07

Right. Well, we already talked about two very good like documentary style, you know, shows tonight, so I feel like that’s our contribution. Yes, good. You’re welcome.

 

HOST  1:26:19

Oh, my God. Thank you for being on the podcast. It has been a total pleasure.

 

GUEST  1:26:25

It has been for me as well. Thank you.

 

HOST  1:26:35

Thanks for listening to yes but why podcast. Check out all our episodes on yesbutwhypodcast.com. Or check out all the content on our network HC Universal at HCUniversalNetwork.com.